Public Accounts Committee on Oct. 28th, 2024

[Andrée-Lise Méthot]

I don't know. That's one of the things I don't understand.

Why are we attacking a Canadian woman who devoted her life to trying to build a sector that didn't exist and who did so whole-heartedly? I even co-chaired a United Nations program group on these issues. I receive invitations from across the world. Yet it seems some committee members remain unconvinced.

For my part, I'm ready for dialogue. My culture is one of dialogue. I'd be delighted to sit down with Mr. Perkins and talk about his beautiful riding in the Halifax area, where there are very interesting businesses. There's a lot of entrepreneurship to support.

I'm very sad. My family is sad. My employees are sad. The CCM portfolio companies are sad. People in the ecosystem are sad. I even had retired public servants wishing me good luck today.

Everyone is sad to see a woman like me, a feminist and environmentalist who devoted her life to fighting climate change, being attacked so unfairly, with a lack of dialogue that, frankly, isn't very Canadian.

That's not what Canada is about. Canada is about dialogue. Here, I'm being subjected to attacks. I don't know if it's because I'm a woman or an environmentalist.

[Nathaniel Erskine-Smith, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

I want to get to that. I'm sorry for cutting you off.

I do want to get to the question of a response here, because—

[Andrée-Lise Méthot]

All right.

[Nathaniel Erskine-Smith, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

—you talk about a culture of dialogue, and you have Mr. Perkins talking about a culture of corruption and accusing you of corrupt conduct just mere seconds ago.

Now, he's protected. He's weaponizing his parliamentary privilege and defaming you behind the cover of that privilege.

My challenge today, Mr. Perkins, is to step outside that parliamentary privilege and say the exact same thing and see how she responds. If I were her, I would sue you for everything you are worth.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Thank you very much. That is the time.

Beginning our third round is Mr. McCauley.

You have the floor for five minutes, please.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thanks for being with us today. I have some quick questions.

You mentioned that when you first joined the board, you were told how to comport yourself and what was expected of you. This was by whom, please?

[Andrée-Lise Méthot]

It was recommended that whenever we had a real or perceived interest in a company, we should declare it and recuse ourselves.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

I'm not getting the translation.

Would you restart it?

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

You can start over from the beginning, Ms. Méthot.

[Andrée-Lise Méthot]

Before we began our tenure on the board, someone would meet with us and explain the expectations and objectives, as is the case with all boards of directors. It's a good practice.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Who was that, please?

[Andrée-Lise Méthot]

I don't recall. It's been over 10 years, but I remember that it was done at the time.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Were you required to sign any ethics agreement?

[Andrée-Lise Méthot]

I don't remember, but I can tell you right now that, if there was a document to sign, I would have signed it willingly, because that's what I do everywhere. There is no shame in signing a document stating that we are recusing ourselves.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Thank you.

I want to talk about the whole issue about the COVID emergency.

It seems to be an excuse thrown out there for poor governance. While it was COVID, we were trying to prop up companies. Did you not sense a need to still follow the old governance rules, the old conflict rules, even though there was the COVID issue going on?

The reason I ask is that I'm, like Mr. Cannings, relatively new to this study, and it just seems that person after person is basically saying that it's okay that we wasted taxpayers' money. Perhaps money was taken by companies that shouldn't have been. Yes, there was a lot of conflict, but it was COVID. We suspended our oversight rules.

Why, if you're on the board—you're very experienced—would you agree to basically throwing out governance rules to push through this omnibus spending, as you described it?

[Andrée-Lise Méthot]

Board members, including me, asked questions about that. You're right.

It's not that we forgot; it's that we discussed it.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Let me interrupt.

You said you had a conversation, asked questions, but you were hired on the board, probably compensated, I assume, to provide oversight and governance. Yet, you had a conversation, and you and the others just threw the oversight and governance and the rules out the door. I'm trying to grasp why.

[Andrée-Lise Méthot]

No, we didn't ignore the rules. There was a lengthy conversation between attorney Ed Vandenberg and the management and board members who were members of the governance committee. We were told that we could do it and that it fell within the rules, because it was an omnibus measure that didn't penalize anyone.

Go ahead and laugh, but that's the conversation we had.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

I'm not laughing. I just find it amusing that a group of board members, many conflicted, decided among themselves, because it's an omnibus, that they were going to agree together to change the rules. That's how I'm looking at it. There were rules before, and then an omnibus rule for COVID spending.

Am I wrong there?

[Andrée-Lise Méthot]

You're wrong. During the five years that I spent on the board, 250 companies were assessed. Four of them were Cycle Capital companies and two of them were entitled to a COVID‑19 support measure, which amounted to $250 in interest for Andrée‑Lise Methot. I'm an engineer. I haven't been—

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Let me interrupt you there, Madam.

[Andrée-Lise Méthot]

Mr. Chair, may I finish?

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

No, let me interrupt you there.

You keep mentioning $250. At what level is it okay to say, “Wait. I have ethics here. I cannot be involved in this.”

[Andrée-Lise Méthot]

I didn't even know they were on the list. I found out about it afterwards.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Whether it's one dollar or a million dollars, it's still incorrect.