Public Accounts Committee on Nov. 6th, 2024

[Arianne Reza]

As far as recovery efforts are concerned, we have made the commitment to the minister to look at how we can recover the funds that were spent on the contract. We have written to GC Strategies and other companies related to ArriveCAN, to put them on notice that we're reviewing this and working with the CBSA.

The CBSA is the client in this. We're helping it go through invoices. We're helping it look at whether there was overbilling or fraud.

Let me pause here.

Do you have anything to add, Ms. Poulin?

[Catherine Poulin]

No. I think the answer is complete.

Each client department is responsible for recovering the funds if it thinks it has been fraudulently overbilled or if it hasn't received the service it paid for.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Thank you. That is the time, Mr. Brock.

We're moving on to Ms. Yip now.

You have the floor for six minutes, please.

[Jean Yip, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, witnesses, for coming today.

Ms. Reza, I'm wondering if you could tell us a bit about your background in procurement.

[Arianne Reza]

I started in December 2016. I won a competition, and I was appointed to be the ADM of procurement. I had to look up exactly what procurement meant, not from a tendering perspective, but from a contract life cycle perspective, looking at the different elements of it.

I've been at PSPC since 2016 in a variety of roles, and at the end of the month, hopefully, I will be celebrating one year as the deputy of PSPC. My experience is now not limited to procurement per se, but it's also looking across the business lines and the back-office functions of the Government of Canada.

[Jean Yip, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Where were you employed before your role at PSPC?

[Arianne Reza]

I've been a public servant for approximately 27 years. I started my career at Health Canada. I went to the central agencies and spent some time at Treasury Board, and then I spent nine to 10 years at Canada Border Services Agency, where I had responsibility for everything from regions—being operationally responsible for the front line—to some of the headquarter work.

[Jean Yip, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Could you tell us how long Diane Daly worked at PSPC?

[Arianne Reza]

On that, I would have to come back to you, unless one of my colleagues knows. Ms. Daly, I believe, worked at PSPC until 2018. I think she started in 2008 as a senior procurement officer, and in 2018, she went on secondment, which is like going on an assignment in the Government in Canada, to go to CBSA. She recently returned to us in midsummer 2023.

[Jean Yip, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

What was the working relationship like with Ms. Daly?

[Arianne Reza]

I'm sorry. I've never met Ms. Daly. I've never worked with her directly. I have no information. I don't know if any of my colleagues.... Would you like to know what she does at PSPC, in terms of her responsibilities?

[Dominic Laporte, Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Procurement Branch, Department of Public Works and Government Services]

I'm happy to jump in.

Ms. Daly is a PG-5, and previously, she was with the real property sector of our department, so that's with procurement.

[Arianne Reza]

We use the term “classifications”. The PG-5 is a relatively senior officer. They have authority to award contracts up to $30 million and to set up supply arrangements. This is someone with a lot of training and expertise to offer.

[Jean Yip, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Ms. Poulin and Mr. Laporte, did either of you have a working relationship with Ms. Daly?

[Catherine Poulin]

Thank you for the question.

No, I have not had any relationship with Ms. Daly, within PSPC.

[Dominic Laporte]

I also never met or talked to Ms. Daly.

[Jean Yip, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

I'm sure you've read the Auditor General's report on ArriveCAN. Do you agree, Ms. Reza, with her findings and recommendations?

[Arianne Reza]

I absolutely agree. As an individual and as the deputy head of PSPC, we have responded. We have responded to the recommendation that was really focused on PSPC. There was a whole series of recommendations. One was directed to us.

We have put in a lot of controls and a lot of review now, in having the oversight, the transparency and the documentation. You asked me about being in procurement. From my perspective, we perennially fall down on file records. With a new e-procurement system, with a new compliance structure to make sure there are full file reviews for decision-making and accountability, we're really hoping to be able to turn the corner and provide more confidence in that file management.

[Jean Yip, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Was the filing the most pressing of the recommendations, or is that what you've prioritized?

[Arianne Reza]

I wouldn't say it's the most pressing. Maybe we can turn here to the Auditor General. From my perspective, really, on the roles and responsibilities between the client and the procurement department, my understanding, as it was pointed out to us, is that we had to challenge function a lot of the decisions. There's a lot of grey space where we need to figure out how to proceed, in terms of decision-making.

May I turn here to the AG?

[Andrew Hayes, Deputy Auditor General, Office of the Auditor General]

Thank you.

A number of our recommendations deal with fundamental findings and areas for improvement. I say “fundamental” because they should be in place. For example, these include the importance of documenting the procurement file, the importance of ensuring that records relating to the payment of invoices are clear and that coding of expenses is clear, the importance of conflict of interest forms, and the importance of proper project management documents like budgets and oversight evidence.

That was the focus of many of our recommendations, and I would say that it's difficult to put one as a priority. They are all important.

[Jean Yip, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Has an action plan been put in place?

[Arianne Reza]

Maybe we can describe that, because it's the most rigorous action plan we've put in place. We're hoping it will yield value for the departments and PSPC.

I'm going to turn to Dominic.

[Dominic Laporte]

Several measures have been put in place in light of the OAG report on ArriveCAN. I would say that task authorizations are clearly defined. In the past, maybe we had task authorizations that were vague. Now they're clearly defined.

Our deputy also spoke about the huge effort we've made in terms of quality assurance and records compliance. We've done three cycles of review, and 450 files have been reviewed by directors. The directors themselves are now personally committed to looking into files, in order to make sure the appropriate information is there. Basically, we learned from some of the challenges we were confronted with in the OAG report.

Also, I would say that a big, key take-away is the challenge function PSPC is playing. I'm asking our procurement officers to challenge the client. If, for example, we have a concern about a procurement strategy that is brought forward and non-compulsive, I say, “Please go ahead, challenge your client and make sure the procurement strategy is documented in its own file.”

A lot of key take-aways have been implemented in light of this OAG report.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Thank you very much. That is your time, Ms. Yip.

Ms. Sinclair‑Desgagné, you have the floor for six minutes.