Evidence of meeting #150 for Public Accounts in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was pspc.
A video is available from Parliament.
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
I'm going to confirm this, so I don't....
Assistant Deputy Minister, Departmental Oversight Branch, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Thank you for the question.
GC Strategies no longer holds a security clearance with the contract program. This means they cannot access secure procurement on our side.
Conservative
Assistant Deputy Minister, Departmental Oversight Branch, Department of Public Works and Government Services
I will turn to my colleague.
Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Procurement Branch, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Thank you.
They've been disqualified. There was a breach of the code of conduct for procurement, so they've been disqualified from all supplier arrangements. This usually applies across all departments.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
How many companies similar to them have been suspended or lost security and, therefore, cannot bid or have lost access because of misconduct?
Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Procurement Branch, Department of Public Works and Government Services
I'm aware of three companies. We have Dalian, Coradix and GC Strategies. Those are the three that have been suspended. I would need to go back to the records to provide you with an exact number and time frame. However, since February and March, those have been the three companies.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
I would assume that it's also the companies involved with the ones referred to the RCMP.
Is it not?
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Perhaps I can take a crack at answering that.
I want to distinguish this: When it comes to overbilling and time theft, it is usually at the resource level. The supplier, while held responsible through the code of conduct—
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
These are subcontractors referred to the RCMP. Are there systems set up to ensure that these subcontractors are never used again?
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
We're mapping that out. As I indicated, this is a whole new set of.... First, we need to find them, refer them, get restitution and put out what their requirement is. They lose their security clearances. There are other elements to it, depending on whether or not it was an error and whether or not they're paying it back.
It's not “one size fits all”.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
Thanks.
You mentioned restitution. The comment to my colleague Ms. Sinclair-Desgagné was that restitution agreements are being negotiated.
Why would we be negotiating restitution if they owe taxpayers money? Would it not be, “You overbilled us, so pay us back,” period?
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
As a result of the time theft, we've reached out to the suppliers. They themselves don't know. We've given them a methodology for the money they owe. We've started—
November 6th, 2024 / 5:10 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
I'm sorry. Let me stop you there.
You said you reached out to suppliers about time theft—money stolen from taxpayers—and that they don't know. Why are we at the point of even having such a discussion? If we've identified time theft—money stolen from taxpayers—should we not just be stating to these suppliers, “Here is the bill, and pay us back immediately”?
Assistant Deputy Minister, Departmental Oversight Branch, Department of Public Works and Government Services
In fact, that's exactly what we have done. We wrote them a letter—
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
Let me stop you there, then.
You said that you're negotiating restitution agreements.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Departmental Oversight Branch, Department of Public Works and Government Services
This is the settlement agreement that goes with the payment.
We told them, “Please pay us that money.” They are paying it back, but they are putting legal conditions on the confidentiality of the agreement and the fact that they are not agreeing to their liability. I think there's a specific word. They are saying, “This does not constitute an admission of liability. However, because we want to keep our relationship with you, we understand it's our responsibility, as part of the contract. Here's your money. It's the full amount of the money that was overbilled.”
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
How is it that the government is finding time theft among subcontractors, but the main contractor is not? I understand you are saying that the company is saying, “Well, we're not liable and we're not admitting guilt.” Did the time theft not happen through the contractor, billing the taxpayer?
Assistant Deputy Minister, Departmental Oversight Branch, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Maybe I have to explain those overbilling cases a little more. Individual people, through multiple contracts, with multiple departments, are concurrently billing the same hours of work.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Departmental Oversight Branch, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Yes, exactly, and that's why the—
Conservative
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
If it's fraud, why is this not going directly to the RCMP and the money being demanded back immediately instead of through a negotiation?
