Evidence of meeting #153 for Public Accounts in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was sdtc.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Zoë Kolbuc  Vice President, Ecosystems, Sustainable Development Technology Canada
Clerk of the Committee  Ms. Hilary Smyth

11:05 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative John Williamson

I call the meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 153 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Public Accounts.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format, pursuant to the Standing Orders. Members are attending in person in the room and remotely, using the Zoom application.

Before we begin, I'd like to ask all in-person participants to read the guidelines written on the updated cards on the tables. These measures are in place to help prevent audio and feedback incidents.

As a kind reminder to all those in person and online, for the safety of our interpreters, it is very important that your microphones are muted when you are not speaking.

Thank you for your co‑operation.

As a reminder, all comments should be addressed through the chair.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(3)(g), the committee is resuming consideration of report 6, Sustainable Development Technology Canada, of the 2024 reports 5 to 7 of the Auditor General of Canada.

I would like to welcome our witness from Sustainable Development Technology Canada. We have Zoë Kolbuc, vice-president of ecosystems.

Ms. Kolbuc, you'll have five minutes for an opening statement, if you'd like. I'll turn things over to you.

Zoë Kolbuc Vice President, Ecosystems, Sustainable Development Technology Canada

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the committee for the invitation to appear today and participate in your study of the Auditor General's “Report 6: Sustainable Development Technology Canada”.

My name is Zoë Kolbuc. I am joining you today virtually from my home in Calgary, Alberta, on Treaty 7 territory, where I recognize the traditional territories and oral practices of the Blackfoot Confederacy, the Siksika Nation, the Piikani Nation, the Kainaiwa, the Tsuut’ina Nation, the Stoney Nakoda nations and the Métis Nation of Alberta Region 3.

I began my work with SDTC almost eight years ago. It has been an honour to work with the many skilled and talented professionals at the foundation, each of whom remains steadfastly committed to advancing sustainable economic growth in Canada. Through our work together, the foundation has supported hundreds of clean technology businesses, which are generating jobs and contributing to local economies across the country as they tackle global sustainability challenges.

In my role as vice-president of ecosystems, I am responsible for a team of individuals who work in regions across Canada. These individuals are tasked with helping build awareness of SDTC funding to ensure broad representation of applicants from across Canada. This work includes outreach to provincial funding programs, including one-window partnerships in British Columbia, Alberta and Quebec, and outreach to potential partners and investors, as well as supporting a whole-of-government approach to help connect companies to the various supports the federal government offers.

I was also assigned the responsibility of managing the application process for the seed funding stream following the establishment of this new funding stream in 2019. This stream focused on early-stage funding to advance clean-technology innovation, and it was developed to foster and encourage collaboration through partnerships across Canada. Applicants were required to meet a series of eligibility requirements as outlined in the contribution agreement. They were screened by a panel of experts, presented to SDTC's project review committee and then recommended to the board for approval.

In launching this stream, an explicit target was to grow the number of women-led companies that SDTC was supporting. Prior to the funding pause last fall, over a third of the companies funded were led by women. This approach helped to expand SDTC support across Canada through a network of over 85 partners. It also resulted in SDTC supporting firms in every province in Canada for the first time in the history of the foundation.

I was also involved in the two pilot projects that were approved under the ecosystems pilot funding stream.

Lastly, I want to respond to some past testimony at this committee regarding my conduct as a leader. I was surprised and deeply saddened by the allegations. I have always strived to foster an inclusive, supportive and respectful workplace and to conduct myself with the same values of integrity, empathy and kindness that I look to instill in my three young daughters. These allegations were thoroughly reviewed by McCarthy Tétrault and its final conclusions on these matters are on the public record.

I want to close my remarks by wishing all of the talented and dedicated colleagues I work with at SDTC the very best as they transition to the National Research Council. I will continue to support them and the new board in fulfilling its mandate to ensure that the transition is as smooth as possible for my exceptional colleagues, as well as for the entrepreneurs and small business owners SDTC supports.

I welcome your questions.

11:05 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative John Williamson

Thank you very much, Ms. Kolbuc.

We'll now begin our first round, which will consist of four members with six minutes each.

Mr. Perkins, you have the floor.

11:05 a.m.

Conservative

Rick Perkins Conservative South Shore—St. Margarets, NS

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, witness, for coming.

You oversaw the seed fund, which the Auditor General found was essentially illegal and outside of the contribution agreements, in other words, the fence posts that the government set up that allowed the spending of taxpayer dollars at SDTC.

Who created the seed fund? Whose idea was it?

11:10 a.m.

Vice President, Ecosystems, Sustainable Development Technology Canada

Zoë Kolbuc

The seed fund was a funding stream that was established in 2019. The strategic direction for the foundation was set by the board, and then the funding stream was established under that direction.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Rick Perkins Conservative South Shore—St. Margarets, NS

Thank you.

The board set it up and the board members selected, as the screening mechanism for a lot of those projects, companies they either sat on the board of or they chaired, like the Verschuren Centre. Is that correct?

11:10 a.m.

Vice President, Ecosystems, Sustainable Development Technology Canada

Zoë Kolbuc

As I mentioned in my opening remarks, there were approximately 85 different partners that SDTC worked with, so those partners would nominate companies for funding and then those nominations would go through an eligibility screening process.

A nomination—

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Rick Perkins Conservative South Shore—St. Margarets, NS

I've read the documents. That wasn't my question. My question was that you had accelerators set up to review these things. Did you not, like the Verschuren Centre?

11:10 a.m.

Vice President, Ecosystems, Sustainable Development Technology Canada

Zoë Kolbuc

No, it was staff who would review the projects for eligibility, and then if they met the eligibility criteria that were set up for the seed funding stream, the companies would then go forward to a panel of experts that would review them. Then the recommendations would be made to the project review committee. The project review committee would then recommend projects to the board of directors.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Rick Perkins Conservative South Shore—St. Margarets, NS

Okay. Who did you report to?

11:10 a.m.

Vice President, Ecosystems, Sustainable Development Technology Canada

Zoë Kolbuc

I reported to the former CEO, Leah Lawrence.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Rick Perkins Conservative South Shore—St. Margarets, NS

You worked then in parallel with the current acting COO—whatever they're calling him—Ziyad, the former VP of investment.

11:10 a.m.

Vice President, Ecosystems, Sustainable Development Technology Canada

Zoë Kolbuc

I'm sorry. Is that a question?

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Rick Perkins Conservative South Shore—St. Margarets, NS

Yes. You worked with...in parallel. Is that correct?

11:10 a.m.

Vice President, Ecosystems, Sustainable Development Technology Canada

Zoë Kolbuc

Yes. Ziyad Rahme was my peer and he held the role of vice-president, investment.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Rick Perkins Conservative South Shore—St. Margarets, NS

Right. When the consideration was being put forward for $6.8 million for the Verschuren Centre from the board, there were a number of emails from him to the team, which I think includes you, fast-tracking their application.

In fact, on July 30, 2021, the subject says, “Verschuren Centre request to fast-track proposal”.

Who would have told him to fast-track that proposal?

11:10 a.m.

Vice President, Ecosystems, Sustainable Development Technology Canada

Zoë Kolbuc

I guess your question is who would have told him to fast-track. I'm trying to remember because I know Ziyad addressed this at the committee before. There are about six steps in the application process. A fast-track would be that the information collected on the project was sufficient, and they didn't need to gather additional information on the project. It doesn't necessarily mean—

Rick Perkins Conservative South Shore—St. Margarets, NS

Who makes the determination to fast-track it?

11:10 a.m.

Vice President, Ecosystems, Sustainable Development Technology Canada

Zoë Kolbuc

That would be the decision of the vice-president, investment, who would agree to fast-track it, but it doesn't necessarily mean the project moves faster through the approval process. It just means that there's sufficient information to proceed to the next step.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Rick Perkins Conservative South Shore—St. Margarets, NS

Okay. Fair enough. The Verschuren Centre was turned down for obvious conflicts of interest. It's shocking to me that it ever made it anywhere, even through a consideration process. It was turned down, but the same vice-president, in a letter in January 2022, said that they would use staff at SDTC to find money elsewhere in the government.

Do you think it was the right thing for the employees of SDTC to essentially be the business development arm finding government money for a centre that was set up by the chair of the board?

11:10 a.m.

Vice President, Ecosystems, Sustainable Development Technology Canada

Zoë Kolbuc

It's my understanding that the Verschuren Centre asked SDTC to not support them in finding any additional funding streams after their project was denied at SDTC—

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Rick Perkins Conservative South Shore—St. Margarets, NS

But that's not what happened. That's not what happened. According to the vice-president of investment, yes, they did, in fact, help find them almost $11 million.

Was that a regular occurrence, where board member companies were using or helped by staff to find other government funding for their projects?

11:15 a.m.

Vice President, Ecosystems, Sustainable Development Technology Canada

Zoë Kolbuc

As I mentioned in my opening remarks, I worked with a team of ecosystem leads. Their mandate was to support the company in accessing—

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Rick Perkins Conservative South Shore—St. Margarets, NS

It's a simple yes or no. I don't need a repeat of your opening remarks.

It's yes or no. Did board member companies—those that they had investments in—regularly use the staff of SDTC to find other government money for their companies, yes or no?

11:15 a.m.

Vice President, Ecosystems, Sustainable Development Technology Canada

Zoë Kolbuc

What I was trying to answer is that the team at SDTC always put support for companies as the primary focus of the work they did. If that meant a company was not a fit for SDTC's mandate, they would make recommendations, based on their knowledge of the ecosystem, of other places where companies could go to receive funding.

That was part of the work that the ecosystems team would do.