Public Accounts Committee on Nov. 25th, 2024

[Zoë Kolbuc]

I always believed that SDTC was operating within the confines of our mandate and the agreement. We did have regular discussions and reporting of our work with department officials. Decisions related to project funding were made by the former board of directors.

I always believed that, but I also acknowledge that the Auditor General has come to a different conclusion and accept all of the recommendations—

[Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné, Bloc, Terrebonne, QC]

Right. Thank you.

Are you telling me that you were not aware of the reservations that the Department of Innovation, Science and Industry submitted to Sustainable Development Technology Canada concerning the fund of which you were the director? Were you never informed of the reservations stated by the Department of Innovation, Science and Industry?

[Zoë Kolbuc]

May I get you to clarify your question in terms of the minister's concerns?

[Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné, Bloc, Terrebonne, QC]

I am not talking about the minister directly, but the Department of Innovation, Science and Industry.

I imagine you have read the auditor general's report. Since my speaking time is limited, I do not need you to reread the paragraph that clearly and categorically states that the Department of Innovation, Science and Industry had raised doubts regarding non-compliance with the contribution agreement in connection with the fund of which you were the director.

Are you telling me, and this is the question I have already asked you, that you were not aware of those reservations on the part of the department?

[Zoë Kolbuc]

I had regular discussions with officials within the Department of Innovation. Any concerns they had I would have addressed and felt that they were addressed in my discussions with them. These projects were publicly reported on—

[Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné, Bloc, Terrebonne, QC]

Yes, but on the other hand—

[Zoë Kolbuc]

—and were believed to be within our mandate.

[Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné, Bloc, Terrebonne, QC]

So you are not familiar with the mandate of Sustainable Development Technology Canada. If you were familiar with the contribution agreement, you would know that project submissions have to be public. People have to be able to find out how to make an application online, and that was not the case for the seed stream of the fund or the ecosystem stream of the fund, I believe. You should have known that there were conflict of interest policies. Instead, you pointed me at the board of directors.

You had conflict of interest cases in front of your face and you did not report the right information to the project review committee. For example, the fact that Chris Wormald both had a stake and was receiving funds from Sustainable Development Technology Canada as an external consultant was a conflict of interest of which you did not inform the board. In addition, the contribution agreement was not followed.

Ms. Kolbuc, it would seem that there are things that are not working, and you are still in the position, which is actually surprising. Could I get an explanation, please?

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

I was going to say that this was more of a statement.

Ms. Kolbuc, do you have any comments?

[Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné, Bloc, Terrebonne, QC]

I asked her for an explanation, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Ms. Kolbuc, you have the floor.

[Zoë Kolbuc]

I don't have any comment.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

I'm sure Madame Sinclair-Desgagné will pick it up again on her next turn.

Mr. Cannings, you have the floor for two and a half minutes, please.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

Thank you.

Ms. Kolbuc, as you stated in your opening remarks and as has been brought up several times during these questions, there have been some fairly serious complaints, I would say, about your—let's say—management style in dealing with employees. You said this was thoroughly investigated and that the report is in the public record. For one thing, can you just remind me and the rest of us here what the findings were of that report?

[Zoë Kolbuc]

Are you talking about the McCarthy Tétrault report?

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

Yes.

[Zoë Kolbuc]

Do you want me to just read to you the final conclusions from the report? Would that be helpful? Is that what you are looking for?

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

Sure.

[Zoë Kolbuc]

It says:

Current or former executives did not engage in the type of repetitive, vexatious or major incident conduct that would constitute harassment, bullying or workplace violence under applicable standards. The assertion that there was a “toxic workplace” was a minority view among participants and appears to be largely attributable to animosity towards leadership style and disagreement with management decisions, organizational changes and conflict of interest issues.

Decisions about restructuring or terminations were not made using discriminatory criteria, nor were they arbitrary and lacking reasonable business justification.

Severance packages were within market expectations and NDA terms and use were in keeping with customary employment practices.

There are a couple more. I can keep going.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

That's okay.

You mentioned that one of the issues that sparked some of these bits of animosity seemed to be conflict of interest issues. Was that a recurring issue in your office?

[Zoë Kolbuc]

As I said, the majority of the allegations that have been made about me personally, I first became aware of when I started to receive these anonymous emails. Just give me a minute. I find this difficult to speak about. They were composed in my name and included a number of them.

I certainly would have worked, as I do as a leader, to resolve these matters had they been raised. I certainly acknowledge that there were opportunities to improve the conflict of interest practices at SDTC. I've certainly learned a lot, and I always did my best to conduct myself with high ethical standards.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

Thank you. That's all.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

You left some time on the table. Do you want to continue your line of questioning? Okay. Thank you.

Up next is Mr. McCauley for five minutes, please.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Witness, thank you for joining us. It's nice to see someone from Alberta, even if you are from Calgary.

Were you aware of these conflicts that were going on? It was systemic. It wasn't like one or two that governance missed. This was widespread systemic fraud being committed. You were a vice-president, so at a high level. Were you aware of any of these?

[Zoë Kolbuc]

How I would be made aware was if there were a conflict declared. Then I would be aware.