Evidence of meeting #154 for Public Accounts in the 44th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was sdtc.
A video is available from Parliament.
As an Individual
I'll speak again. I believe I'm getting feedback from inside the room.
Conservative
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Williamson
I'll have the clerk look into that.
In the meantime, you may proceed.
As an Individual
As I've indicated, I saw my role as being around policy coordination and acting as a liaison with the organization to ensure it was aware of what was happening with other federal policies and programs.
I only participated in a substantive way in the first part of the meeting, which was a policy update where I provided that type of information. I was keen to see what the organization was doing of its own accord in collecting information on what was going on in the industry, and we did feed that back to the deputy minister and also to our own work of understanding what the needs and requirements of the sector would be.
I did not see my role participating in board meetings as having any specific or formal role around oversight of administrative matters. When it specifically came to the issue of conflict of interest, I saw myself as having no particular role unless I was called upon by SDTC or by a board member and became aware of a specific conflict issue, and that never occurred.
Liberal
Jean Yip Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON
I find it troubling that you were there at the meetings and you saw these conflicts, yet you did not act.
As an Individual
If I can, these conflicts were not evident in these meetings. It was clearly obvious that people announced their recusal at the beginning of the meeting and then left. I did not see any situation—and I would have acted upon it, if I had seen such a situation—where a board member had intentionally violated their obligations on conflict of interest and sat there to discuss a project that I knew they had a stake in.
Liberal
Jean Yip Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON
I'm going to move on because I'm not hearing clear answers.
Can you explain the early impacts of COVID on the clean-tech industry in the context of the COVID payments?
As an Individual
It's something that we don't talk about a great deal these days. The reality is that the first days of COVID were quite a shock, especially for small companies across the country. Especially in clean tech we saw a complete collapse of markets. We saw a complete collapse of supply chains. We saw access to capital within the sector completely dry up. We saw valuations for companies that were out looking for private funds also dry up. The industry was in, frankly, a state of crisis.
At that time—I can't recall if it was to the CEO or a group of ministers—there was a group of 200 CEOs from within the sector who wrote government saying, “We are in crisis and we need assistance.” It was in that context, keeping the sector alive, that the COVID payments were made.
I am aware of the fact that SDTC undertook its own evaluation of its client base and the effects of COVID, found essentially the same thing that I just said and provided that data to the board in the decision-making around the COVID payments.
Liberal
Jean Yip Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON
What is your view on the potential of the clean-tech sector? Can Canada have a global presence?
As an Individual
I believe Canada is a presence in the clean-tech sector globally, and it has significant potential to grow.
When I started working on clean tech a number of years ago, the focus was very much on early-stage development projects. This is pejorative, and I apologize for it, but it was guys working on stuff in their garages.
Clean tech has matured into large industry these days. In fact, while we sometimes talk about clean tech as an industry or a sector, it's not. There's clean tech in all industrial sectors. What we've seen in the last five years is a very dramatic embrace of clean technology by most of Canada's major industrial sectors, which creates significant opportunity.
I think the challenge we face going forward is that we're not alone in this situation. We've seen significant incentives and supports for clean tech in most other large jurisdictions, including the United States, Europe and China. If we want to maintain and grow our global market share, we have to be competitive in how we grow those companies.
Liberal
Jean Yip Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON
Can the sector be a major contributor to our GDP and energy transition to net zero?
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Williamson
Thank you.
We will continue with Ms. Sinclair‑Desgagné.
Before we go there, are you hearing any feedback now, Mr. Noseworthy, or is it a little better?
Okay. I appreciate that. We're not hearing it in the room, so if it does persist, I might suspend the meeting and have IT call you.
I don't think the interpreters are hearing it either...no. That's good. Keep me posted, please.
Ms. Sinclair‑Desgagné, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.
Bloc
Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné Bloc Terrebonne, QC
Mr. Noseworthy, have you read the Auditor General's report?
Bloc
Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné Bloc Terrebonne, QC
I'm going to read from the report, in paragraph 6.63:
Furthermore, we found that Innovation, Science and Economic Development Canada had communicated concerns to the foundation's management about whether the first Ecosystem project complied with contribution agreements.
Were you aware of the reservations that you or your department provided to the management of Sustainable Development Technology Canada?
As an Individual
We discussed that matter at the operational level with the CEO. I believe I discussed it directly with the CEO.
There were a number of occasions over my time with ISED when we raised specific concerns about projects or initiatives that SDTC was seeking to undertake.
In that particular case, we wondered about the eligibility of the project under the contribution agreement. My memory of the situation—and I'm sorry that I don't have this information in front of me—is that they came back to us and satisfied our initial concerns. I believe we agreed to allow the program to proceed on a pilot basis, with the expectation we would review it in more detail later.
Bloc
Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné Bloc Terrebonne, QC
In response to my previous question, you said that you didn't think your role was policing. Now you're telling me that, ultimately, you told the management of Sustainable Development Technology Canada that there were problems and that there was non-compliance with the contribution agreement.
Excuse me, but that's very contradictory. At the meetings of the board of directors, you said nothing when certain projects did not meet the requirements of the contribution agreement, but you intervened on the ecosystem component. It's not consistent.
As an Individual
The concerns we raised as a department were raised at the officials' level as materials were being developed on project-specific decisions. With the exception of.... Well, actually, I think in all cases they were resolved and did not warrant discussion at the board level. Indeed, I did not see it my role even at the board level to raise those concerns.
I recall in the case of the particular project you mentioned that the CEO did indicate to the board members that there had been a discussion with ISED, and we were working out issues around eligibility.
Bloc
Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné Bloc Terrebonne, QC
Several of the ecosystems projects were in complete contradiction with the contribution agreement. Not only was the component not public, but some projects were also ineligible. It was mentioned. You talked about the senior executive level. Who was it in the department? Was the deputy minister included? I imagine that Mr. Knubley and Mr. Kennedy were included in those discussions at the time.
As an Individual
We raised our concerns about the potential eligibility of the projects directly with SDTC. They provided recommendations and actions.
Bloc
Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné Bloc Terrebonne, QC
Mr. Noseworthy, I'm asking you to tell me who you mean when you say “we”, please.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Williamson
I'm sorry to interrupt. We will come back to your questions later.
Up next is Mr. Cannings.
You have the floor for two and a half minutes, please.