Public Accounts Committee on Nov. 27th, 2024

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Noseworthy, you were ISED's eyes and ears at the SDTC board, attending each and every board meeting in which there were 186 conflicts of interest involving board members. The Auditor General identified 90 instances in which the conflict of interest policy was not complied with. There were multiple real conflicts of interest, including tens of millions of dollars that were funnelled from SDTC to companies in which board members had interests.

Your excuse for supposedly saying nothing, doing nothing and reporting nothing back is that you had no independent way of assessing conflicts of interest. Really? How can you assert that when the evidence was right in front of you?

[Andrew Noseworthy]

Fiduciary responsibility on conflict of interest rests with the member of the board. It is their responsibility to ensure—

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

Mr. Noseworthy, you've made the statement that you had no independent way of assessing conflicts of interest. I put to you that this is false. The evidence was right in front of you, wasn't it?

Mr. Noseworthy, this committee has heard plenty of evidence about the fact that, weeks before each board meeting, an agenda was sent out, board members were invited to identify which projects they had conflicts of interest in and, at the beginning of the meeting, the secretary would read out which projects involving which directors' conflicts of interest existed.

Again, the evidence was right in front of you, and you said nothing. You did nothing. You covered it up. Is that what you're saying?

[Andrew Noseworthy]

I only saw the materials that were circulated for board meetings—

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

The materials provided that certain members had conflicts of interest. It was said at the beginning of the meeting.

What are you talking about that you had no independent way of assessing? You're just making it up. You're making it up to cover your butt.

[Andrew Noseworthy]

When people declared a conflict of interest and it was raised at the beginning of the meeting, my experience was that they recused themselves and they were not part of the discussion on the project.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

Did they leave the room because recusing themselves is not sufficient? Even if they did leave the room, that's not acceptable either—is it?

Section 12 of the SDTC Act states very clearly that “no director shall profit or gain any income or acquire any property from the Foundation or its activities.”

One such board member, Andrée-Lise Méthot, the good friend of the environment minister, admitted before this committee that $10.4 million was funnelled from SDTC into companies that she had interests in. That is a complete violation of the SDTC Act.

Yes, she declared the conflict. Yes, she left the room. You were at each of those meetings. Why didn't you report these blatant violations of the SDTC Act? You were aware of the act. You admitted you were aware of the act. Why didn't you report that $10.4 million was funnelled into her companies, improperly and illegally?

[Andrew Noseworthy]

My experience was that people recused themselves, and my assumption was that, by recusing themselves and following normal board procedures, they would have been in compliance with the—

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

What part of subsection 12(2)—“no director shall profit or gain any income or acquire any property”—do you not understand?

[Andrew Noseworthy]

I am not a lawyer, sir.

I believe that subsection needs to be read in reflection on what the—

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

There was $10.4 million going into companies—

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

—that Andrée-Lise Méthot had interests in—

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Mr. Cooper, I have a point of order.

We have Ms. Khalid.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

Chair, we've spent lots of months and years trying to make sure that our interpreters are well taken care of. We don't need to yell that loudly when we're talking into a microphone, because I do believe that it is hurting their ears—

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

The interpreters will let us know.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

No, they won't. They'll just walk out.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

Chair, if you can please—

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Thank you. I was hearing Ms. Khalid.

Mr. Drouin, I appreciate your concern. It's one I share.

Mr. Cooper, you have about 40 seconds left, and I would urge you to be aware of the interpreters. I see where you're going, and I know that committee members share your concerns, but could you just keep that in mind?

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

Mr. Noseworthy, what were you doing at each of these meetings, eating chicken fingers? I mean, what were you doing?

[Andrew Noseworthy]

As I've now indicated multiple times, I saw my role there as around policy coordination and providing board members with advice that they might find useful in policy coordination and in ultimately making decisions around the organization.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Thank you very much.

Up next is Ms. Yip.

You have the floor for five minutes, please.

[Jean Yip, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you to the witness for appearing.

I've been hearing all sorts of things about your role on the board and the policy coordination function, yet there are also all of these conflict of interest issues.

I know the others have also asked you this, but I really do want to hear very clearly how you saw your role on the SDTC board.

[Andrew Noseworthy]

I truly saw my role as a liaison.

I'm sorry. There seems to be feedback on the microphones.

[Jean Yip, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Are you able to hear?