Public Accounts Committee on Feb. 1st, 2022

[Lesley Burns]

The ultimate goal of the committee is to improve public administration and root out any waste of public funds. I think that if you always have that as your end goal and as the main point that you're trying to achieve, it can help to give you a vision that keeps you away from the merits of the policy and questioning that [Technical difficulty—Editor].

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Kmiec]

I'm sorry, Dr. Burns. Can you restart? There was again an interruption there and we didn't get the audio.

[Lesley Burns]

Sure. I would put [Technical difficulty—Editor] of the public accounts committee is to ensure that public money is spent effectively. If you hold that as the goal that you're reaching, it can help to steer you away from falling down the holes of the merits of policy. You may come across issues where you have a lot of policy ideas around what comes up. By all means, take that to other venues that you work in. That's one of the key things I hear that members like about being on the public accounts committee, that you learn so much about different issues and how different government departments work.

[Carol Bellringer]

I think it was the chair who made the comment about how you couldn't tell in a particular line of questioning which party was asking the question. That's something that is often brought up at the annual conference. If you close your eyes, you can't tell which party just asked the question. It's a neutral desire to have improved public administration.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Kmiec]

Ms. Sinclair‑Desgagné, you're the last speaker.

[Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné, Bloc, Terrebonne, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank the witnesses for their presentations.

Given how the figures and financial data of various institutions can be presented, I have a somewhat specific question. I'm thinking of Crown corporations, for example, that follow international financial reporting standards, as opposed to departments, which have their own transparency standards.

How can the committee request that these corporations present their data differently, and for study purposes, with reasonable objectives, of course?

[Carol Bellringer]

I don't know the rules of your committee as to whom you may call in as a witness.

On the accounting rules, certainly across Canada in the public sector it's quite rare for the accounting standard to be baked in legislation, to have it in [Technical difficulty—Editor] legislation. But the practice currently is, I'd say, 99% compliant, certainly at the provincial and federal levels, to follow Canadian auditing and accounting standards, so [Technical difficulty—Editor]. If it's not in accordance with Canadian accounting standards and it's part of the consolidation—including Crown corporations coming in—and if it's significant, the Auditor General will point it out in the audit opinion as a qualified [Technical difficulty—Editor] not a clean opinion. That has not been the case, so it is in accordance with Canadian standards.

If you look back 30 years, it was a mess across the country; everybody was doing it differently. That standardization is quite good across Canada now. At the municipal level, it's not as perfect, but certainly at the federal and provincial levels.... It's probably a much longer conversation, and if you ever want to call to talk about it—or obviously with your Auditor General or comptroller general—I'm happy to have a further discussion.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Kmiec]

I'm sorry, Mr. Dong. I see you have your hand up, but we're over time. I did say that Madame Sinclair-Desgagné would be the last questioner, and we have to move to in camera.

[Han Dong, Liberal, Don Valley North, ON]

Chair, can I just make a quick comment on this, like 10 seconds?

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Kmiec]

Very quick.

[Han Dong, Liberal, Don Valley North, ON]

We had this conversation. Just for the benefit of my colleagues, federally, we don't [Technical difficulty—Editor] all AGs across the country to follow one standard. Is that correct?

[Carol Bellringer]

That's correct. It's not a layered approach. Each province would deal with it separately.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Kmiec]

I want to thank both witnesses for coming in and providing us with much detailed content and material. Thank you both, and hopefully any committee member can reach out to you if they have more questions or comments and want to exchange ideas with you. We would really appreciate that.

Colleagues, we're going to have to move in camera for this. For those of you in the room, this is pretty simple. You just stay here. For those of you on Zoom, you're going to have to log out, and there's a separate link for the in camera session, which should have been sent to you. Please log into that.

We'll suspend the meeting and then move in camera.

[Proceedings continue in camera]