Public Accounts Committee on Oct. 21st, 2022

[Dillan Theckedath]

The tabling itself does not prompt anything, but we typically, as a committee, plan to hold a hearing.

With the public accounts, there's usually a training session involving the Canadian Audit and Accountability Foundation. This in camera meeting will also usually include officials from the comptroller general's office and the Auditor General. Sometimes there's a public and an in camera hearing. Sometimes it's just the in camera. Like I said, there's usually a session. Then there's a full meeting on them. It happens at the discretion of the committee, based on its workload, availability and whatnot.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

There you are. Those are some of the answers, Mr. Genuis, on what you were raising in terms of what's coming.

I'll turn now to Mrs. Shanahan.

[Brenda Shanahan, Liberal, Châteauguay—Lacolle, QC]

Thank you, Chair. That was one question I had, the actual tabling of the public accounts, which is like our big moment. It's like the start of a new season, to see what work we will be looking at.

In that line, I am a little concerned about what I'm hearing from Mr. Genuis around new things happening. The new thing happening is the tabling of the reports. We have a way, in public accounts, to address that. I welcome the idea that we would invite the Auditor General to see us privately on those reports, with officials, and that there would be some additional training, as Dillan mentioned, on how we handle those reports.

This is what's different about this committee. On the one hand, we have the luxury, I would say, of being able to deal with topics that have already received a thorough study, but we need to add our part to it. What is that? That is different from what happens in any other committee.

Second, maybe it's just me but I feel that this committee is already starting to go down a road that will not just hurt.... Forget the current government and “let's score a point here” or “let's get a headline there”. It is the critical importance of the autonomy, the independence, of this committee to be able to study the public accounts so that Canadians have confidence in them.

On that note, Chair, we've been hoping to have that informal lunch. Maybe that's not for right away, but I think it is important to build on that relationship we have with the Auditor General. We had first steps with the conference this summer, already looking at some pretty critical issues we're seeing elsewhere in the country and elsewhere in the world. I think that is something we could address. That's the long-term work that will last for subsequent governments.

My colleagues on the Conservative side will be well-served by us sticking to our knitting in this committee. That's all I had to say. Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Thank you, Mrs. Shanahan. The point has been well received.

Now that the committee members have settled in, the bios are all up to date and we know our membership, it is on my agenda—it's literally right there and I was going to mention it, but you beat me to it—to schedule that encounter. It will likely be lunch, but possibly dinner—I will canvass the members to be sure on that—with the Auditor General to have that discussion about her office's and our committee's responsibilities.

I see you, Madame Sinclair-Desgagné. We'll go to Mr. Genuis first, and then I'll come back to you.

I will note that we have a hard stop at 3 o'clock, because of the stress on the resources. If you can, keep that in mind, Mr. Genuis. Thank you.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Yes, Chair.

Briefly, I think Mrs. Shanahan and I were saying much the same thing in different words.

Maybe this is my ignorance as a new member, but seeing that there were a number of things scheduled for release, I wanted to make sure we weren't planning out an agenda post-break week that did not involve those things.

I agree, absolutely, looking at the public accounts that come out.... It's something that I'll get in the briefing, but in terms of having an in camera meeting as opposed to a public meeting about the public accounts and the Auditor General's reports, I don't know if that's a given. The function is not totally clear to me. You don't have to answer that now. It's something we can follow up on.

I think the idea of an informal meal is excellent, but I will warn you, Mr. Chair, being an alumni of the immigration committee, that Chair Salma Zahid brought baklava from her riding, so I have a high standard that's been set. I'm expecting you to bring lobster and other things from Atlantic Canada. Hopefully, public accounts is up to the same standards as immigration was.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Sadly for you, Mr. Genuis, the Auditor General hosts the reception.

If you'd like the meals you're talking about, you have to come to my riding. You can come any time. You're all invited. I know the Liberals just came back from Saint Andrews, New Brunswick, and they had a grand old time. Conservatives will have to come either on their own, or as a caucus. The same goes for the Bloc Québécois.

St. Croix Island is in my riding, 20 minutes from me. The area was home to francophones who helped found this country, Canada, as well as Quebec.

It's the same for the NDP. You're welcome in my neck of the woods any time.

Go ahead, Ms. Sinclair‑Desgagné. You have a few minutes.

[Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné, Bloc, Terrebonne, QC]

I want to make a very important point.

The much-talked-about lunch is supposed to take place in Quebec.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

I'll talk to you about that off-line after.

Mr. Genuis, the answer to your question about in camera versus public is that it's both. This committee is given a kind of early preview, and then everyone comes back for a proper public meeting on these questions.

Mrs. Shanahan, you have the floor now.

[Brenda Shanahan, Liberal, Châteauguay—Lacolle, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The reason for the in camera meeting is that it gives the Auditor General an opportunity discuss certain topics, and we've seen what those topics are because we are doing a report-by-report, department-by-department, study.

I can remember Michael Ferguson talking about the importance of data collection, as Mr. Desjarlais and Ms. Sinclair‑Desgagné so clearly pointed out.

In fact, I recall quite clearly that consideration of the realities facing indigenous peoples was a huge problem for departments. A number of really important and compelling issues were discussed, and that helped us come up with appropriate questions going forward.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Thank you very much.

Are there any other comments?

For those wondering and for those who might have missed this part of history, because we don't teach it in our schools, l'Île-Sainte-Croix is where Samuel de Champlain spent his first winter in North America. It is an important point for the history of this country.

It's also important for francophone people all over North America.

With that, I am going to adjourn the meeting. We will see you back here on Tuesday.

Thank you very much. I'm really pleased we got through that.