Evidence of meeting #39 for Public Accounts in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was question.
A video is available from Parliament.
5:30 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Williamson
Thank you very much, Mr. Genuis. That is the time, unfortunately.
I'm going to turn to Mrs. Shanahan now. You have the floor for five minutes.
5:30 p.m.
Liberal
Brenda Shanahan Liberal Châteauguay—Lacolle, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I'd actually like to give Mr. Leswick the time to respond more fully to Mr. Genuis's question, because I too would like to understand the nature of the infrastructure bank.
Oh, is it Mr. Sabia?
5:30 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Finance
Nick, you can have it.
I'm good with him [Inaudible—Editor].
5:30 p.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Finance
Is it just on that very last question of the member opposite?
5:30 p.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Finance
If the Government of Canada chose to withdraw their shareholding from the Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank, you would redeem the share value at that moment in time. It would be whatever the U.S. dollar conversion would be and whatever value the shares would be at that moment of divestment.
5:30 p.m.
Liberal
Brenda Shanahan Liberal Châteauguay—Lacolle, QC
Thank you.
I am doing a little bit of cleanup here too, because my colleague, Mr. Dong, didn't have the time to ask folks in the finance department about a large spike in subnational debt you had noticed during and after the pandemic. Why is that? What does that mean, considering that we still have the healthiest debt-to-GDP ratio in the G7?
5:30 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Finance
Throughout the pandemic, we did see both at the level of the Government of Canada and at the level of virtually all provinces some increase in the size of deficits. That being said, the largest increase by far was at the federal level, because, as I think you know, the federal government paid something in the order of 80% or 85% of the total cost of COVID, so the provinces were much less stressed financially.
One of the things we've seen over the last 18 to 24 months as a result of the strength of the recovery in the economy with respect to business incomes, individual incomes, commodity prices, etc., all of which have flowed into incremental revenues, is a very significant turnaround at the provincial level. It's true at the federal level as well, but at the provincial level it's particularly marked, such that a number of provinces—all but three or four, I think—are now essentially in a surplus position.
Because the federal government bore so much of the burden of COVID, and given now the actually quite remarkable strength of the recovery that occurred as the economy reopened, provincial finances are in, I would say, exceptionally good shape.
5:35 p.m.
Liberal
Brenda Shanahan Liberal Châteauguay—Lacolle, QC
Has the government received any thank-you notes from the provinces?
5:35 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Finance
They usually come in the form of press conferences about health care, and they're not exactly overly positive.
5:35 p.m.
Liberal
Brenda Shanahan Liberal Châteauguay—Lacolle, QC
Thank you.
Mr. Chair, I noted that Ms. Kusie was asking questions about Report 7. I was delighted, for one, because this is a report we want to study in more detail, and indeed you did confirm that we would be doing so. I'm hoping that Ms. Kusie will join us again when we do study that report, because cybersecurity is absolutely a top priority.
Do I have time?
5:35 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Williamson
You do. You have a minute now.
I should preface that. That was a personal remark from my spot. I hope we will study that report, but of course it's up to the members here.
Let's get back to your minute and four seconds.
5:35 p.m.
Liberal
Brenda Shanahan Liberal Châteauguay—Lacolle, QC
Otherwise, I'll have to ask cybersecurity questions at every meeting going forward in order to get the answers I'm looking for.
5:35 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Williamson
It's your time, unless your colleague Mr. Fragiskatos tries to rule you out of order.
5:35 p.m.
Liberal
5:35 p.m.
Conservative
5:35 p.m.
Liberal
Brenda Shanahan Liberal Châteauguay—Lacolle, QC
Excellent.
A theme I certainly addressed in the last meeting was this balance—or tension, if you will—between timeliness in the speed of reporting the public accounts and accuracy. I think Mr. Genuis was rightly concerned about errors that can be found.
We have heard testimony that the public accounts don't just appear by themselves; they are dependent on information being provided by Crown corporations, many other departments, and so on. Mr. Huppé or Madam Peressini, if you want to make some comments, where would you rather fall: on speed of reporting or accuracy in the public accounts?
5:35 p.m.
Comptroller General of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
Accuracy is always the most important thing. It's transparency and accuracy. Again, obviously, in a document that's 2,500 pages, there are bound to be some typos here and there. As I and Diane Peressini said, as we find them, we correct them.
Keep in mind that not everything is audited in these books. There's a portion of the financial statements that are. We have an unmodified opinion there. I would like to give kudos to the financial community for that for 24 years in a row. As we've said, there are other jurisdictions that have a unmodified opinion, but I'm not sure they've had it for 24 years. We're probably one of the top jurisdictions for that.
5:35 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Williamson
Agreed.
Thank you very much.
We'll go now to Madame Sinclair-Desgagné.
You have the floor for two and a half minutes.
5:35 p.m.
Bloc
Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné Bloc Terrebonne, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Sabia, I'd like to continue talking about Trans Mountain.
November 22nd, 2022 / 5:35 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Finance
Why am I always the target?
5:35 p.m.
Bloc
Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné Bloc Terrebonne, QC
You aren't always the target, but you are a vast source of knowledge. You can ask Mr. Leswick to answer for you if you prefer.
I'd like to clarify what you said about the Trans Mountain project. In the last answer you gave me, I think you said that it was quite rare for a government to decide to own this type of infrastructure.
I'll come back to my first question. Weren't you shocked? The Quebec institution that you were president and CEO of will eliminate its investments in oil production at the end of 2022. The Canadian government is confirming that it is funding oil projects. I don't want you to tell me that it's more complicated to run a government than it is to run a fund.
In most countries the government leads by example. It encourages organizations, whether they are in the private or parapublic sector, to follow suit. I'm thinking of an example you're familiar with, the Task Force on Climate-Related Financial Disclosures. I'm also thinking of countries, such as the United Kingdom, that are starting to ask banks to disclose more information and are issuing constraints.
I'll repeat my question. Don't you think that the Government of Canada is lagging behind in the fight against climate change and, more importantly, in the directions that are being given?