Public Accounts Committee on Nov. 25th, 2022

[Joanne Wilkinson]

In terms of success stories, I think we have spoken about Kashechewan and the on-the-land initiative. That has certainly been one of them.

I think the work that we are also doing in terms of multilateral agreements is critical in terms of having first nations as full and equal partners around emergency management tables.

We've also done a great amount of work in British Columbia, for example, where we have provided a significant amount of funding to the First Nations' Emergency Services Society. These are first nation partners who are actively working on the ground to deliver emergency services, including FireSmart and a number of other prevention projects.

We've also done a great deal of non-structural mitigation, so outside of the infrastructure area. We can certainly get back to the previous question around the costs of those projects. Non-structural mitigation includes everything from capacity development to the emergency coordinators we've spoken of, on-the-ground things such as radio systems, and connection to provincial systems required for the safe evacuation of folks. There's lots happening on that front.

We met just this week with Peguis First Nation, which is a first nation that is also continually at risk. We have, there, provided a number of advance payments, rather than waiting for all of the claims to come in. I referred earlier to “recovery-based”. That's what recovery-based means, in terms of the financial aspect: We get the claims in, and we pay the claims out, for those eligible expenses. We're now trying to increasingly move to providing advance payments to nations, as with Peguis, so that they are not put at risk from a financial perspective. We take on that risk. We work with them in terms of determining the eligibility of their claims. It lessens the financial risk for them, having to put out that money in the first place.

I will leave it there. I don't want to use up all of your time.

Thank you.

[Iqwinder Gaheer, Liberal, Mississauga—Malton, ON]

Thank you so much.

My final question is for the deputy minister. I find that a report can sometimes leave out certain nuances. Is there anything that you want to add that's not quite captured in the report itself?

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Jean Yip]

Please give a very short answer.

[Gina Wilson]

I just want to recognize all the emergency management professionals from every province and territory, federally and in first nation communities for all the hard work they're doing.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Jean Yip]

Thank you.

[Iqwinder Gaheer, Liberal, Mississauga—Malton, ON]

Thank you.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Jean Yip]

We now move on to Ms. Sinclair-Desgagné for two and a half minutes.

[Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné, Bloc, Terrebonne, QC]

Thank you very much.

I would like to point out that the answers to my colleague Mr. McCauley's questions are in the Auditor General's report. I'm surprised you don't have them.

It states that the department estimated the total cost of the 112 projects to be at least $291 million. However, this amount is underestimated. In fact, when the item-by-item review was conducted, it was found that there were no costs associated with some projects. If you go to Treasury Board, I would advise you to improve the quality of these figures.

I'll go back to my earlier question. Right now, we see that the annual budget for the First Nations Infrastructure Fund is currently $12 million per year. That would mean that it would take about 24 years for the department to fund its projects.

What are you going to do to ensure that it doesn't take 24 years, given that the number of emergencies is increasing?

[Valerie Gideon]

We currently have 94 projects, and we have estimated their total cost at $358 million. We're continuing to get more detailed information on the projects to get a better understanding of what the needs are. This will continue to evolve.

As I mentioned earlier, we have to take into account the number of emergencies and recovery costs that are increasing every year. We're really going to have to keep evolving our estimates because things are changing rapidly.

[Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné, Bloc, Terrebonne, QC]

Indeed, costs may increase, including labour costs. In fact, this is to be hoped for, because since the cost of inflation is very high, one wants wages to follow.

With regard to the timetables I was talking about earlier, you mentioned that you were going to make an action plan.

Can you commit that the action plan will include a clear timeline to address the Auditor General's requirements and recommendations?

[Gina Wilson]

I like your suggestion.

I'll take that on.

[Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné, Bloc, Terrebonne, QC]

Excellent. You can be sure I will ask again if there is no timeline to the action plan.

I have another question for you about first nations. Of the 13 communities that had problems, four of them did not apply for funding.

Why were you not in contact with these communities? How can you explain that the most affected communities were not contacted and assisted in completing their funding application?

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Jean Yip]

Give a short answer, please.

[Valerie Gideon]

I wouldn't say that we did not communicate with these communities. It's related to the fact that they haven't submitted their application. As Joanne mentioned earlier, we will continue to be more proactive. We have some funding for community capacity building. In addition, emergency management is also part of the coordinators' role.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Jean Yip]

We have Mr. Desjarlais for two and a half minutes, please.

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

I recognize the short time, so I would like to offer some quick questions, and I hope for some quick responses.

In relation to the first nation infrastructure fund, which I understand the department has until March 2024, under that dedicated stream, there is an annual budget of $12 million to fund structural mitigation projects. Short of what Mr. McCauley was saying in relation to the Treasury Board, is that enough funding to ensure that projects that are requested on behalf of the ministry are funded?

[Gina Wilson]

Joanne, can you explain the first nation infrastructure program and some of the details?

[Joanne Wilkinson]

You are correct. The funding that we have available specifically for structural mitigation is $12 million a year. We spend 100% of that funding. As Associate Deputy Minister Gideon mentioned, the cost that we have estimated currently for the 94 unfunded structural mitigation project proposals is $358 million.

We seek to leverage investment opportunities, not only internally but with other partners. The deputy mentioned Infrastructure Canada. We work with all partners who can bring those types of funding proposals forward. Within [Technical difficulty—Editor] our own operations, as we work with nations and as they prioritize their infrastructure needs, we work with them to align those resources as well as we can, depending on the priorities of the first nation.

Thank you.

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Let me be clear. It was said that there were funding capacity issues. You're saying that there's a need for $358 million. The question that's important, and it relates to my first question, is in relation to accountability.

If it's not the Treasury Board, are you making the request for finances to achieve this target to the minister?

[Gina Wilson]

Yes.

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Has the minister responded to your request for increased finances?

[Gina Wilson]

She's very supportive.

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Do you believe that there will be an increase beyond $12 million to this fund?

[Gina Wilson]

It is up to Parliament to appropriate those dollars to us. We'll gladly take them.

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Do you think it would be anywhere near the actual need of $358 million?