Public Accounts Committee on Nov. 29th, 2022

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

But what's going on that you have to be “better able”—

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

I have a point of order, Chair.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

I don't understand.

[Romy Bowers]

Because of the nature of the housing—

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Pardon me, but I have a point of order. At least I heard a point of order.

Is that right, Mr. Fragiskatos?

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

Yes, it is, Chair.

The point won't surprise you. I've brought it up before. The questions are legitimate, but let's allow witnesses the space to answer them. That's all.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

I'd like to address that point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Go ahead.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

It's not a point of order. This is my time. I'm asking very specific questions, and I would appreciate very specific answers on a very important topic that Canadians have a right to hear.

It's not a point of order, and I'd appreciate it if you would direct the member to stop interrupting.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

As members know, this time is reserved for members. If a member feels that a witness is being evasive, they have allowance to press that. Let's not get to the point of badgering, which I will not allow. However, give-and-take in this committee is to be allowed.

I'll turn the floor back to Mr. McCauley.

You have about 35 seconds left.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Great.

As a follow-up on the same question, shouldn't it be more of a properly defined target, rather than “better able”, as you noted in your action plan?

[Romy Bowers]

We are committed to defining the target more precisely, and we're committed to meeting the timeline specified in the audit plan.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Thanks.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

That's your time. Thank you very much.

We'll now turn to Ms. Yip.

You have the floor for six minutes.

[Jean Yip, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

This is truly a sobering report. I thank the Auditor General and her team for studying and providing recommendations on chronic homelessness. I remain hopeful that, through the recommendations and action plans, more can be done.

Ms. Bowers, given that the government agreed with the recommendation on the need to improve coordination between CMHC and Infrastructure Canada on the effort to tackle chronic homelessness, can you speak to the importance of a whole-of-government approach when it comes to homelessness?

[Romy Bowers]

Thank you very much for this question, Mr. Chair.

Homelessness, as Deputy Minister Gillis has explained, is a very complex issue. It requires close collaboration between the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation and Infrastructure Canada. I am absolutely committed to strengthening the ties between our two organizations.

As I noted in my opening remarks, homelessness is about housing—it's about building housing and it's about supports associated with the housing—but it's also about providing the health and the social welfare supports that are required to help those most in need.

As DM Gillis mentioned, those supports are often provided by non-profit organizations, as well as other orders of government, and we're very committed to working across all levels of government to make sure that we all collectively work toward eliminating chronic homelessness in Canada.

[Jean Yip, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Ms. Gillis, what role does the federal government play in relation to other orders of government when it comes to this issue? I'm picking up where Ms. Bowers left off.

[Kelly Gillis]

Certainly. Thank you very much for the question.

At Infrastructure Canada, we lead the program Reaching Home. Reaching Home is a transformational program that involves understanding, within the communities, by name, who is homeless and what their needs are. Being able to service those needs requires you to work with all orders of government: the communities at hand and the support levers within that particular community; the provincial or territorial supports that are within that community; and what we, CMHC and other government departments are doing.

In dealing with some of the complex issues—whether it's multi-generational racism, colonialism, mental health or addiction—those are some of the things that we are addressing when we're looking at chronic homelessness. Those support services are critical and are often provided by the local governments or the provincial or territorial government.

That alignment of work is really important, and the Reaching Home program is the transformation to be able to give the support services to the community entities that are delivering those supports and working with their communities to be able to provide that service.

[Jean Yip, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Thank you.

My next question is addressed to both Ms. Bowers and Ms. Gillis. We've often heard about the plight of homeless veterans, as well as seniors, people with disabilities and women, who are also vulnerable. Is there any coordination and integration with other departments to help ensure that the needs of these vulnerable individuals are addressed?

[Kelly Gillis]

Perhaps I will start.

In budgets 2021 and 2022, the government committed to developing a veterans program, which will soon be launched. I mentioned that in my opening remarks. That is something we are looking at and developing, specifically with Veterans Affairs Canada and the veteran-servicing community across Canada, to be able to tailor the program to the specific needs of those who have served our country.

We know there are about 2,500 homeless veterans across the country. We want to be able to target the support that they need to get what they require in the particular programs that we're going to be launching.

[Jean Yip, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Thank you.

Go ahead, Ms. Bowers.

[Romy Bowers]

The only thing I would add is that CMHC's programs often provide the capital funding for the actual structure of the housing that is required to house veterans or some of the other vulnerable groups that we mentioned. We work very closely with Infrastructure Canada, but also other departments, to make sure that there is a coordinated access of these vulnerable groups to our programs.

[Jean Yip, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Could you comment on the project with Statistics Canada that you mentioned in your opening statement about accessing more data to address these vulnerable persons?

[Romy Bowers]

As I mentioned earlier, when we accept an application for our funding, we ask for information about the vulnerable groups that the proponent is targeting, and we have a governance process to ensure that when the project is completed, the units are actually being occupied by the vulnerable groups that have been identified. Because of the nature of the construction cycle, there is a timeline between when the funding is provided and when the information about the occupants is provided, and that provides some gap in our reporting.

There are limitations in our reporting because of privacy concerns. You can imagine that, especially with respect to vulnerable groups, there are limitations in the kinds of information we can disclose publicly. We are working on a project—a strengthened partnership with Statistics Canada—to gather more administrative data on an anonymized basis to ensure that we have greater information about the vulnerable groups that we're targeting.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

That is the time exactly. Thank you very much.

Welcome to the committee, Mr. Trudel.

You have six minutes.