Public Accounts Committee on Nov. 29th, 2022

[Jean-François Tremblay]

What happened during COVID is that we decided that those groups were getting more money and had to transform the way they delivered services during COVID and face the challenge of COVID, and if they were not able to report in time, we postponed the report. That's why a lot of the information didn't come in time, but it's coming, so we'll see with this information, as my colleague from Infrastructure Canada mentioned. Some of this information is coming, and they're now getting some of the trends and what exactly the money is achieving.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Thank you very much. That is the time.

I'll turn now to Mrs. Shanahan.

You have the floor for five minutes.

[Brenda Shanahan, Liberal, Châteauguay—Lacolle, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to talk more about the measures and how the data is collected. I think that is where there may be a misunderstanding.

Ms. Gillis, could you tell me who is responsible for data collection? Who is living in these units?

[Kelly Gillis]

Under the agreements, the community groups have to have the data and send us the information according by various deadlines. During the pandemic, we gave them an extension because they were very busy.

[Brenda Shanahan, Liberal, Châteauguay—Lacolle, QC]

Who are these community groups? Are they associated with the federal government, provincial government or municipal government?

[Kelly Gillis]

They are not associated with the federal government, but often with not-for-profit organizations that receive the funds to deliver services in their community.

[Brenda Shanahan, Liberal, Châteauguay—Lacolle, QC]

Why are we working with those groups?

You said it was a transformational program, but we are waiting for the results.

What is the difficulty here? Could we not simply add up the dollars and units?

[Kelly Gillis]

Thank you for the question.

The objective of the Reaching Home program is not to build housing. It is to give communities funds so they can deliver services to people who need help to find housing or temporary financial support for housing.

This program could also help communities design educational programs. It is not meant for constructing buildings; it is for delivering services.

These services are customized to the needs of the individual, potentially addiction services. The person is linked to the actual help that they need depending on their individual circumstances, and that's where we work with non-profit organizations for them to have an information system so that someone who's homeless doesn't have to go through their community to different organizations trying to find the help they need. Instead, it is centralized and coordinated by all the homeless-serving sector within that particular community, and it is an internationally recognized best practice.

Now we are seeing some of the fruits of that practice being put in communities across the country, but we know more is needed, and that's why we're working on, first of all, doubling the funding to those particular community entities over the next number of years so they can do more. As well, we are doing further analysis to understand, once you've actually put in this transformational, coordinated system, what more communities need to be able to deal with this very complex, serious problem.

[Brenda Shanahan, Liberal, Châteauguay—Lacolle, QC]

Thank you for that.

You did mention there has been tremendous success. I forget how you said it exactly, but Quebec was not included in that number, so I'd like to learn more about that. In my community, Châteauguay—Lacolle, we've had tremendous progress with a project in the rapid housing initiative that would address at-risk youth. I'm so thrilled. We're working with Kahnawá:ke. This is a first for Châteauguay to work with Kahnawá:ke in transforming what was an eyesore, an old hotel on our main street.

Can you talk to me a little bit about what agreement you have with Quebec?

[Kelly Gillis]

Thank you very much for the question, Mr. Chair.

With Quebec, we work directly with the province, and the province works with community entities. We have just reached an agreement with Quebec to implement coordinated access. We have seven community entities within that particular province, and we're working on a detailed implementation plan, so we'll be advancing coordinated access within the province as well.

[Brenda Shanahan, Liberal, Châteauguay—Lacolle, QC]

How much time do I have, Chair?

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

You have about 30 seconds.

[Brenda Shanahan, Liberal, Châteauguay—Lacolle, QC]

Okay.

I want to ask about measures and how they're put together. We had a strategy. We have targets. Are the measures not included within the strategy?

I don't know who can answer me on that. Who wants to take a leap at it?

[Romy Bowers]

Yes, we track seven indicators of success very closely for the national housing strategy. I can give you a sense of what some of these indicators are.

One thing we track is how many households have their housing needs either significantly reduced or eliminated. We also track how many new housing units the government has funded. We look at existing community housing stock and the number of units repaired or renewed. We also look at preserving community housing stock and how the federal government's investment is protecting community housing stocks. We have numbers associated with that as well as progress. We have the Canada housing benefit, which is not an investment towards—

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

I apologize. I have to stop you there. The time is well over. A member might come back to you on this, I suspect, and there might even be a request to see that information, but that's not for me to say.

I'll turn now to our next round. This will be our final full round. We might have time for a few other questions at the end.

Mr. Aitchison, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Scott Aitchison, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to return to the question of the report that's come out, Ms. Bowers. One of the bigger concerns I have with this report is that.... It's bad enough that, really, one of the main mandates of the organization is to do a lot of research on housing in general and it's not doing a good job of keeping track. The bigger concern I have is this business that no one really seems to know who's the lead, and we won't have one until next year, I hear. That seems particularly odd to me.

Ms. Bowers, how often do you meet with the Minister of Housing and Diversity and Inclusion?

[Romy Bowers]

I meet with the minister on a regular basis.

[Scott Aitchison, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

Have you met with the minister since report 5 of the Auditor General was released in order to discuss the findings?

[Romy Bowers]

Yes, I have.

[Scott Aitchison, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

Did the minister express his concerns? Have you come up with an action plan with the minister to solve the problem?

[Romy Bowers]

As part of our regular process, the minister would review the action plans proposed by CMHC and Infrastructure Canada and would have the opportunity to ask questions and approve it.

[Scott Aitchison, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

When you worked at the Bank of Montreal, I'm assuming that the bank had a bonus structure for employees for great work. Did they have a bonus structure at the bank?

[Romy Bowers]

Yes. The bank, like many other organizations, had a total performance system that included bonuses and other benefits.

[Scott Aitchison, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

CMHC, I understand, gave about $48 million in bonuses in 2020-21. How many employees would have received a bonus?

[Romy Bowers]

In 2022, our bonus expense amount was about $30 million. I don't have the exact number of employees who received it, but I can certainly get that to you, as required.