Evidence of meeting #50 for Public Accounts in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was contracts.
A video is available from Parliament.
12:20 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Thank you for your question.
As I mentioned, we are nearly there. Negotiations are coming to an end.
Perhaps Mr. Page would like to add something on this.
12:20 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Defence and Marine Procurement, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Thank you for the question.
We are at the final stages and we are dotting the i's and crossing the t's. The negotiations are essentially over but we just have to iron out a few details.
12:20 p.m.
Bloc
Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné Bloc Terrebonne, QC
Why didn't we come to an agreement with the Davie shipyard much more quickly, given its size and its decades-old proven capacity?
12:20 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Defence and Marine Procurement, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Thank you for the question.
When we received the order to proceed with the approval of a third shipyard that would be integrated into the national shipbuilding strategy, we launched a solicitation process. Then we set out the steps of that process. We spent quite a lot of time asking for additional information from the shipyard to make sure that all the technical aspects were covered. We also had to undertake a financial evaluation of the shipyard to ensure that it would be able to meet its commitments under the strategy. This was a time-consuming process, but as I was saying, we are now coming to the end of it.
12:25 p.m.
Bloc
Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné Bloc Terrebonne, QC
What took so long? Usually, financial statements are pretty clear.
12:25 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Defence and Marine Procurement, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Actually, I wouldn't say that it took very long. We went through our usual process, which is pretty rigorous, as you know. It's no small feat to bring on board a partner to whom you're going to give a significant amount of work. Creating a long-term strategic partnership requires heavy investments.
We wanted to make sure we didn't overlook any details of the national shipbuilding strategy. That's what we had done with the other two shipyards.
12:25 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Williamson
Thank you very much.
Mr. Desjarlais, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.
12:25 p.m.
NDP
Blake Desjarlais NDP Edmonton Griesbach, AB
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
My question is for the commissioner of the Canadian Coast Guard in relation to climate change and the Coast Guard's resources in being able to manage spills, potentially, or other kinds of catastrophic natural disasters that may be present in Canada's Arctic north.
Before we left off, I mentioned the audit's remarks on the deficits of the equipment. In relation to that, are you confident in your department's ability to respond to a major environmental catastrophe in Arctic waters?
12:25 p.m.
Commissioner, Canadian Coast Guard, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
When we talk about pollution, it's always a concern. I wouldn't be doing my job properly if I wasn't concerned about that.
In Canada, there's a principle called “the polluter pays”. The operator of the vessel is responsible to clean their own pollution. If they don't act properly, then we step in. The people who operate in the Arctic are very responsible. Most of them are actually resupplying the communities, so they do not want to leave a trace behind. They are well equipped, but we have equipment on our ships as well. We have equipment, as I said, in many caches across the Arctic. We train the local people so they can take action right away if something happens. If we take a number of hours to get there, action can start immediately.
From experience, whenever there's been a spill, the operator steps in. They do some training with the communities as well.
12:25 p.m.
NDP
Blake Desjarlais NDP Edmonton Griesbach, AB
In relation to that, of course, is the fact that climate change is going to increase in the Arctic. It's going to have one of the most catastrophic impacts in the north. It might be one of the areas where Canadians would expect most of the catastrophic damages brought on by climate change to be.
In relation to that, what is the likelihood of natural disasters increasing due to the increased traffic in shipping lanes that you're talking about, due to climate change? Given the fact that climate change will likely increase shipping, the likelihood of disaster within those shipping lanes will also increase.
Is your department prepared for that increased challenge?
12:25 p.m.
Commissioner, Canadian Coast Guard, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Yes, we have what we call the northern marine corridor that we have developed as well. Basically, it's tracking where the ships are. We're going to ask the ships to follow the preferred routes. This is where we can focus our energy to put in aids to navigation. We can do the proper charting in those corridors. This is ongoing. This is exactly in preparation for what you're saying. This way, we can also map sensitive areas. If there is bird migration in certain areas, depending on the time of year, we can redirect traffic—
12:25 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Williamson
Thank you very much, Commissioner.
Mr. Kram, you have the floor for five minutes.
12:25 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Kram Conservative Regina—Wascana, SK
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I would like to circle back to page 22 of the report and the Nanisivik Naval Facility. The report says that for the other 48 weeks of the year, “the rest of the navigation season, the ships’ refuelling will continue to depend on commercial options or allies’ cooperation”.
I was wondering if you could elaborate on what capabilities our allies have in Canada's Arctic waters that we do not have.
12:25 p.m.
Commissioner, Canadian Coast Guard, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
The Coast Guard has been operating in the Arctic for over 60 years. The way we've refuelled our ships has been through tankers that come from down south. Those tankers are maybe going up to refuel communities, and we use that opportunity to buy fuel as well. This is planned months ahead of time. It doesn't happen from an ad hoc perspective.
From a navy perspective, we have transferred fuel to the navy in the past too. I cannot speak for their other operations or their intent, but from the Coast Guard perspective, if Nanisivik is operational, we will use it. If not, we'll continue the way we've been going, through bringing tankers and barges up north.
12:30 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Kram Conservative Regina—Wascana, SK
When you say tankers “from down south”, do you mean down south in Canada or from the United States?
12:30 p.m.
Commissioner, Canadian Coast Guard, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Depending on the procurement, it's mostly from here, from a company like Desgagnés. There are some companies down south that resupply the communities in the Arctic.
12:30 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Kram Conservative Regina—Wascana, SK
Okay.
Maybe I should turn to the deputy auditor general, Mr. Hayes.
On page 22, where the report says “or allies’ cooperation”, what are you referring to? Are our allies operating up there right now?
12:30 p.m.
Deputy Auditor General, Office of the Auditor General
I'll ask Mr. Swales to add to this. I will say that, obviously, the remoteness of the north makes it difficult to get supplies up there. There are a number of ways that supplies travel to the north.
Go ahead, Mr. Swales.
February 13th, 2023 / 12:30 p.m.
Principal, Office of the Auditor General
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Part of what we were referring to was the use of ports that our allies have. For example, there are ports in Greenland that belong to Denmark and ports in Alaska that belong to the United States.
12:30 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Kram Conservative Regina—Wascana, SK
Okay. Fair enough.
I'd like to shift gears a bit now to page 3 of the report. It says, “Waters are largely not charted to modern or adequate standards.”
Are there any plans to chart these waters to modern standards?
12:30 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
We are continuously charting. Of course, with the way we do it now, the functionality on the ships is much better than it was in years past.
12:30 p.m.
Commissioner, Canadian Coast Guard, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
We've installed multibeam sonar on all of our ships. Whenever the ship is transiting, we can switch it on and collect data that is then is sent to the Canadian hydrographic service to allow them to update all the charts. In the last six or seven years, there's been a lot of data collected.
12:30 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Kram Conservative Regina—Wascana, SK
Are there any plans for this data to be included in Canada's claim to the Arctic seabed in front of the United Nations Commission on the Limits of the Continental Shelf?
12:30 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
I can't speak to the use of the data in the claim, but certainly we can come back to you with more information on that. I think we'd need to work with Global Affairs.
12:30 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Kram Conservative Regina—Wascana, SK
Canada presently has, I believe, six icebreakers in operation in the Arctic. I understand that Russia has about 40.
Why are Russia's icebreaking capabilities so much larger than Canada's?