Public Accounts Committee on March 6th, 2023

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

I suspected as much, but I just like to ask.

Mr. Matthews, I want to go back to you on the C-295 Kingfisher debacle, for lack of a better word. Have we looked at the unintended consequences on the C-130 fleet to cover the search and rescue shortfalls due to the problems and the delays with the 295s, and whether it's going to affect the future life cycle of the C-130s?

[Bill Matthews]

The short answer is, yes, we've looked into risk mitigation, which is what this is, to fill in a gap. That was factored into making that decision. Can I give you any specific information in terms of additional hours of flying, etc., and what it might do? I cannot.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

The 130s have a set lifetime. They're very expensive to maintain and run, being four engines as opposed to what the Kingfishers were supposed to be. What are the added costs? Are we burning out the 130s one or two or three years early on their ballpark 60,000-hour lifespan?

[Bill Matthews]

I understand the question. I don't have information at that detailed level here. I can absolutely take that one back. Nancy might have an answer, but I suspect not.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Certainly. If you could get back to us, it would be wonderful.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Jean Yip]

Thank you very much.

Ms. Bradford, you have five minutes.

[Valerie Bradford, Liberal, Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I want to look now at the environmental aspect of the Arctic. I'll be directing these to ECCC.

What are some of ECCC's activities in the Arctic in terms of weather and environmental prediction?

[Chris Forbes]

Thank you very much for the question. I have a colleague here from the meteorological service who can certainly fill in any blanks.

I would say that the key parts we are providing are near-term predictions around, obviously, weather, ice, water conditions, wind and things like that, which we would share with colleagues and obviously with communities. In the longer term, the meteorological climate conditions obviously can be used for planning and other activities to get at longer-term trends.

I'd be happy to ask my colleague Ken to add in some colour commentary.

[Ken Macdonald, Executive Director, National Programs and Business Development, Prediction Services Directorate, Meteorological Service of Canada, Department of the Environment]

The only thing I could add is this: In addition to providing meteorological intelligence and ice information for the Canadian territory, we provide for a broad swath of Arctic international waters, as part of international agreements under the International Maritime Organization.

[Valerie Bradford, Liberal, Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON]

Thank you.

Can satellite data be used to fill weather and climate observation gaps in the north?

[Ken Macdonald]

Definitely. Satellite has become the primary tool for meteorological and ice surveillance. For ice, where we previously relied on the transport Dash aircraft, for example, we now rely almost exclusively on satellite surveillance.

[Valerie Bradford, Liberal, Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON]

In general, what do we know about the status of water quality in the northern areas of Canada?

[Chris Forbes]

What we know, in general, is that the water quality levels are good. I would say the lower levels of economic activity in the north and the Arctic obviously contribute to that, but we have good-quality water indicators for northern waters.

[Valerie Bradford, Liberal, Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON]

Given the increased traffic in the north, what is ECCC's role, should there be an environmental emergency?

[Chris Forbes]

The meteorological service is certainly there to provide whatever support it can, in terms of predictions, any climatic or weather contributions or effects, and emergencies. We have conservation officers and others who would obviously be involved, depending on where the activity takes place. We have a coordination role, I would say, in terms of any emergency response, depending on where exactly it takes place.

[Valerie Bradford, Liberal, Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON]

How would you respond if there were an environmental emergency up there? What if there were some sort of spill or something, as a result of this increased marine traffic?

[Chris Forbes]

For spills, certainly from the meteorological service we have some predictive or analytical data—Ken can talk more about this—from the ice service, which allows us to detect and track spills or disturbances. That would give us early warnings. If it happens over water, I think the Coast Guard would take primary responsibility, in terms of first response.

I can answer further, if you like, but that's the simple response.

[Valerie Bradford, Liberal, Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON]

I'm flipping over to the Department of Transport again.

What's the status of the integration of a third national shipbuilding yard to support the Canadian Coast Guard program?

[Bill Matthews]

That's actually a question for PSPC. We touched on it earlier. The negotiations are ongoing with a third shipyard, but it's led by PSPC.

[Valerie Bradford, Liberal, Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON]

Is there a time frame for that at the moment?

[Bill Matthews]

I'm not aware of one, but I wouldn't necessarily be the best person to ask.

[Valerie Bradford, Liberal, Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON]

Given that many of the delays in procuring ocean vessels have already been identified in the audit of the national shipbuilding strategy, what other insights can be provided on further reasons for the delays?

I'm not sure who wants to take that one.

[Bill Matthews]

Perhaps I can start, Madam Chair, from a defence perspective.

In Canada, we are still dealing with a shipbuilding industry that is relatively new to building these sizes of ships. As you build new and different ships.... When you look worldwide, first-in-class and second-in-class generally come with problems. We've touched on some of the recent challenges for the Arctic offshore patrol ships.

What you want to get to is a series where you're building similar ships in a long run. By the time you hit the third ship, you can factor in anything you've learned from your early ships. By way of example, under the Arctic offshore patrol ships, the sixth ship is likely going to come in at significantly less cost than the first ship, because of learning in the manufacturing process. They will have learned a few things in the design process as well.

Those same—

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Jean Yip]

Thank you very much.

We'll now move to our fourth round, starting with Mr. Kram for five minutes.

[Michael Kram, Conservative, Regina—Wascana, SK]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

First off, in response to my colleague Mr. McCauley's question, could Mr. Matthews provide information about the C-130H, in particular? That would be very much appreciated.

I'm changing gears now.

Mr. Matthews, are Russian submarines operating in Canada's Arctic waters?