Public Accounts Committee on March 20th, 2023

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Ms. Yip, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Jean Yip, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

I somehow knew that was going to happen.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Jean Yip, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

My question is in regard to recommendation 5, ensuring that emergency management service agreements include services provided and standards, and also services for marginalized groups.

How is the department working to ensure that emergency management services on reserves are culturally competent and in line with community needs, specifically for indigenous elders, women and youth?

[Gina Wilson]

Definitely, communities work with elders, and so do we as part of the work we do. We also do gender-based analysis.

Maybe Joanne and Valerie would have something to add very quickly.

[Joanne Wilkinson]

Certainly, when we're working with communities, most often from a GBA+ lens, elders, pregnant women, small children and those types of individuals are identified as priority one for evacuations. They're often evacuated first. We do also work with communities to ensure that things like language supports for elders whose first language may not be the language of the host community where they're going are provided for them, and that mental health and other supports are there to ensure that there is that wraparound.

We're also trying to further the training of community members so that they can then take on some of these positions when the community's evacuated. Young people, for example, can assist with security at hotels and those types of things. On the food that is provided, we take every step we can to make sure that traditional foods can be used where it's appropriate. Those types of things are where we try to make a difference.

Thank you.

[Jean Yip, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Okay.

What about those who are physically disabled? They may need more specific emergency management assistance.

[Joanne Wilkinson]

Yes. Absolutely. They are often evacuated as priority one as well. There was reference earlier to the first nations and Inuit health branch. We work closely with them to ensure that if there's a nursing station in the community, for example, or if an escort is required, those folks travel together, their medications are available, and those health records are available as people are transiting out and coming back home.

Thank you.

[Jean Yip, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Ms. Gideon, did you have anything you wanted to add? Okay.

For the people watching at home, in terms of emergency management, what are the provinces responsible for that we may not be aware of?

[Kenza El Bied]

In terms of emergency management response in.... I'm sorry. Can I ask you to repeat your question? For those who are watching at home....

[Jean Yip, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Yes. In terms of emergency management, what are the provinces responsible for that we may not be aware of?

[Kenza El Bied]

I would say we have been working with all of the provinces. We have been promoting our work; we have been promoting the Auditor General's report, the recommendations that we are working on. There is a lot of work happening in Alberta, B.C., Manitoba, the Northwest Territories. We're even having a conversation with the Northwest Territories and the Yukon government. Ontario is well advanced. I would say that most of the provinces are aware of the work we are advancing right now.

[Jean Yip, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

I guess my question is more specifically this: What do the provinces do in terms of emergency management that—

[Joanne Wilkinson]

Yes. Certainly provinces, generally speaking, have wildfire management. They have the evacuation support that the deputy mentioned earlier. They do that heavy lifting in terms of getting people out, helping to identify the risks, and also making sure nations are listened to, because as was mentioned earlier, part of the new approach that we're working on with provinces and territories and leadership is to make sure that first nations leaders have a strong voice at the table.

By way of example—and it ties into the question earlier around signed agreements—where there are not signed agreements sometimes we're able to push the boundaries there and pay attention to what nations are looking for. Wabaseemoong, for example, is a nation in Ontario that is located closer to Winnipeg than perhaps to some of the traditional areas where the Province of Ontario would normally evacuate them. There is no signed agreement between the provinces of Manitoba and Ontario in terms of having evacuees go back and forth across those provincial lines, but in the case of Wabaseemoong, because it was so important to the community to be based in Winnipeg, the Province of Manitoba, the Province of Ontario, ISC, Public Safety and the community worked together to make that happen, so that the community could evacuate to Winnipeg, where they had close family connections and those types of things.

There doesn't have to be a signed, sealed and delivered agreement in place. There is an understanding that when life and limb are at risk, people pull together and find the best solutions and try to respond to every need the community has put forward.

Thanks.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Thank you very much. That is the time.

Ms. Sinclair‑Desgagné, you have two and a half minutes.

[Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné, Bloc, Terrebonne, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The public accounts committee likes to take a look at what the reports say as well. On pages 300 and 301 of volume II of the Public Accounts of Canada 2022, I noticed a variance between the authorities available for use and the authorities used by the Department of Indigenous Services for its various programs.

A total of $152.2 million was not used for contributions for emergency management assistance for activities on reserves, and a total of $413.8 million was not used for contributions to support the construction and maintenance of community infrastructure. I realize that long-term infrastructure projects can take a while. We have been talking about building infrastructure to prevent and mitigate risk and adapt to climate change for a decade.

In concrete terms, can someone tell me why, on one hand, we're hearing that there isn't enough money and, on the other, we're seeing so much money going unused by the department?

[Valerie Gideon]

Thank you for your question.

The emergency management assistance program receives annual core funding, but we always request additional funding for the potential reimbursement of emergency expenditures. We always budget for enough funding to make those reimbursements, but it's very tough, because we don't ever know how many emergencies will impact communities each year or how much they will cost.

This funding is set aside for that purpose.

[Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné, Bloc, Terrebonne, QC]

I see.

[Valerie Gideon]

As Mr. O'Connor explained, if a community isn't able to move an infrastructure project forward, we reprofile the investment so as not to drop the commitments made in relation to the project. We don't want to penalize people if they have trouble finding equipment, for instance, or if they run into logistical challenges.

[Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné, Bloc, Terrebonne, QC]

You said that more than just $12 million had been allocated to prevention. Can you tell me approximately how much is put towards prevention each year?

[Valerie Gideon]

In 2019‑20, we received $69 million over five years for structural mitigation work, which is basically prevention. Over five years, $47.72 million was put towards wildfire protection, and $43.6 million was allocated to improving emergency management coordination capacity within first nations communities or organizations.

That money is really for prevention and is on top of the $12 million invested in infrastructure every year. We always try to work with communities to maximize resources invested in other community infrastructure sectors and increase resources allocated to infrastructure-based prevention.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Thank you.

Mr. Desjarlais, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'll begin with a quote:

In 2011, at the end of her mandate as Auditor General of Canada, Sheila Fraser summed up her impression of the government's actions after 10 years of audits and related recommendations on first nations issues with the word “unacceptable”. Five years later, my predecessor, Michael Ferguson, used the words “beyond unacceptable”.

We are now into decades of audits of programs and government commitments that have repeatedly failed to effectively serve Canada's indigenous peoples.

She said we have failed to serve Canada's indigenous peoples. She went on:

It is clear to me that strong words are not driving change. Concrete actions are needed to address these long-standing issues, and government needs to be held accountable.

Deputy minister, can you guess who said that?

[Gina Wilson]

You're asking me to guess who the quote is from?