Public Accounts Committee on March 23rd, 2023

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

I'm sorry, but for the terms under which you deliver—if you deliver FOB origin or FOB destination—that is not in any way information that could harm you if it were disclosed publicly. For the terms of the confidentiality clause of the agreement—what terms you used—that's not something that would harm your business if they were disclosed publicly. Whether or not it was subject to the law of Quebec or the law of Ontario wouldn't harm your business if it were disclosed publicly. If there were an arbitration clause, that wouldn't harm your business if it were disclosed publicly.

I now want specifics. What are those specific clauses in the agreement? You're going to have to explain to me exactly why they would harm your business. Please give me the exact clauses of the agreement that you feel are confidential, that couldn't be disclosed and where you would have actual business risk in the event that they were disclosed vis-à-vis your competitors or your international markets.

[Najah Sampson]

To be as specific as I can, I think there are parts of the contract that deal with supply and supply schedules.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Okay.

[Najah Sampson]

We have actually more than one vaccine, so for information as it relates to our different vaccines and the differences between them, a lot of that is proprietary. It's proprietary information, but it's also very commercially sensitive. When we talk about Canada and the contract we have in Canada, it actually does impact. It could be seen as something that is of interest in other countries, because we also have these confidential contracts in other countries.

Again, I think we're talking about these contracts holistically, but there are definitely components that are commercially sensitive for us from a competitive perspective and proprietary for us, but that then also could impact or prejudice some of the discussions we're having right now as we speak with other countries around the world.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Again, I understand. I come from this background. I was a general counsel. I understand that there are certain parts of a contract that, if they become publicly disclosed—again, that would presume that the committee would publicly disclose them somehow—could harm your ability.... For example, if you priced one country differently than another, or if you had a supply schedule that said you were favouring shipments to one country over another and this would become public, that could harm your business relationship with other countries. I fully understand that, but there are many clauses of the agreement that would not. Is that right?

[Najah Sampson]

That's correct.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

I'm asking in terms of redactions. You're proposing to redact trade secret information. Trade secret information would be how you make the vaccine and how you manufacture it. I don't think many people would have a problem with not seeing that. I personally don't think so. Then you're proposing it on pricing. I'm not sure if that would or would not be a problem. That's for pricing. You're also talking about the schedule of deliveries, which, given the fact that these schedules really were during the pandemic several years ago.... I know there are still ongoing vaccine deliveries under new amendments to the agreement, but that's—

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Mr. Housefather, I'm going to have to stop you there. Your time is up. We will come back to you as well.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Thank you, Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

You'll be able to press that point one last time.

Ms. Sinclair-Desgagné, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné, Bloc, Terrebonne, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Please answer my very straightforward question with a yes or a no.

I'll begin with you, Mr. Baylet. When you signed the contracts for the vaccines with the government of Canada, were you aware that there was a provision on parliamentary access to information?

[Jean-Pierre Baylet]

No.

[Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné, Bloc, Terrebonne, QC]

Okay.

[Najah Sampson]

I'm sorry. I didn't hear the question.

[Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné, Bloc, Terrebonne, QC]

Did you know that there was a parliamentary access to information provision when you signed these contracts with the government of Canada?

[Najah Sampson]

The translation isn't working. I apologize.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Pardon me.

I'll let the clerk check on that.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

French to English is working for me.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Did you say English is on the French channel?

[Najah Sampson]

I can hear that test.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Do you have it? Okay. That's good.

I will repeat the question. It will not count against your time.

[Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné, Bloc, Terrebonne, QC]

Can I have my time back?

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

You were stopped. You're good.

[Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné, Bloc, Terrebonne, QC]

I had to repeat the question twice.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

I'm going to repeat it right now.

Were you aware of the parliamentary oversight that is part of our system, wherein there is a possibility parliamentarians could review these contracts?