Public Accounts Committee on May 18th, 2023

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Is that it?

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

I have more questions, but yes, that's it.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Okay.

Minister, is it possible that your team could provide that to the committee? I'm seeing yes. Thank you. I appreciate it.

Mr. Perkins, you have just over four minutes now. The floor is yours.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Thank you.

One metric that is in your program is the national housing co-investment strategy, which deals with this issue of what is an affordable place to rent. I think, if I read the program correctly, it's trying to help low-income people find accommodation that is 20% or less of their income.

When I look at the Auditor General's analysis on page 22 of the report, it has a nice graphic here and it also has a chart that basically shows that not a single province is delivering housing that's below 20% of costs.

In my province, Nova Scotia, the low-income average set out by the Auditor General is a little over $22,000. The way it works out in this formula, for it to be below 20%, rent would have to be $560 a month. I can tell you that in the largest town in my riding, Bridgewater, if you can find a place, a one-bedroom apartment in that town, above a pizza shop on the main street, it would be about $1,200 a month.

While you're spending the money, I'm not seeing the evidence that it's actually helping people with low income. In fact, the Auditor General says it isn't. Basically, it's not helping those in that critical low-income area. It may be helping people with a little bit higher income who can afford some of these apartments, but it's not helping those who have lower income.

I wonder if you could comment, just quickly, on that part of it.

[Nadine Leblanc]

Thank you for the question, Mr. Chair.

I think the question relates to the co-investment fund. I do want to say that the affordability level of this program is around 80% of the median market rent. At this point in time, this program is actually overachieving its affordability. The way it's structured it actually is at 59% of median market rent income.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Thank you.

Could you table that information, the details on that? To me it appears different from what the Auditor General is saying.

I'd like to ask the minister again, if I could. It was a question we asked in committee of the whole this week. I think, given your testimony today, you probably have a different answer. Do we have a housing affordability crisis?

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

Mr. Chair, I keep hearing the opposition trying to get these sound bites without really even acknowledging—

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

It's not a sound bite, Minister. It's a simple question.

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

Well, I'm trying to answer the question, if I may.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Well, you can without the political chatter. This is the public accounts committee. Your job is to be accountable for what you say.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Mr. Perkins, you are burning your time.

Minister Hussen, go ahead.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

I know I am. I have a clock running.

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

Let me know when I can answer your question. You've been interrupting me—

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

The floor is yours.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

The floor is yours. I would like to hear an answer, for a change, on whether or not we have a housing crisis.

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

Can I answer your question or are you going to keep interrupting me?

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

I don't know if you can, but you're certainly free to try.

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

Okay, I will answer your question if you stop interrupting me.

The fact of the matter is that the fundamental difference between you and your party and the rest of us here is that you don't believe in Canadians' right to housing, a basic human right.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

That's not actually true.

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

No, actually, you don't. I asked you that—

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

That's not actually true, and you're to be accountable for your actions here. That's your job, to be accountable.

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

—throughout the night and you refused to answer, all of you. You never accepted that Canadians have a right, a human right to housing.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Read your open and accountable government mandate letter, which says you are—

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

You never accepted it.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

—to be accountable to parliamentary committees and answer questions. Your job is not to ask me questions. You can answer them.