Public Accounts Committee on May 18th, 2023

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

Yes, absolutely.

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

In my city, about 60% of the houseless population is indigenous. It's a massive number and it's continuing to grow. The reality is that they have a distrust of the federal government and a distrust of the services because of the inability for them to find support. They often don't even have ID.

I will also speak of a real person in my community, who has now passed on. It was my birth mom. She was a houseless person for a period of her life and it's because she was a victim of the sixties scoop. She was taken as a child. She went through many homes. She found herself on the streets of Edmonton.

The child and family services ministry has produced houseless folks. Have you ever had a conversation with your colleagues, in particular in Indigenous Services Canada, to try to address the reality that the numbers are increasing? Even if you increase the stock, the houseless population is increasing because of the government's inaction on solving the issues related to child and family services.

Do you recognize that as a problem?

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

Of course. Family and child welfare services and the systems around that are one of the pipelines into homelessness.

You recognize that our government has done a lot of work in that space. Although it's mainly a provincial matter, we have taken that on.

It is not true, as you say, that we're just building homes. Reaching Home is about the services. These are 5,000 projects that include employment supports. It includes counselling, mental health supports. It includes addiction supports.

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Do you think it's enough?

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

No, there's always more work to be done.

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Minister, that's the part that I want to have your attention on.

You're going to hear from various members today. From your bench, of course, you're going to hear many good things, and good questions from the opposition. I've seen you challenge the official opposition in a way that I believe is not the most appropriate. They have really good questions.

In particular, I want to find ways to get answers for the houseless community I represent. I represent thousands of houseless people in Edmonton. They want real answers. The Auditor General has made it clear that red tape and bureaucratic mistrust are barriers to ensuring that we actually see solutions in Edmonton, for example.

What do you have to say to the houseless community in Edmonton that's growing? We've seen an increase in the houseless population. That's a fact. What do we say to those people, and what do you expect them to take away from our questioning today?

[Kelly Gillis]

To go to the question on how we support the homeless community better, the Reaching Home program is a transformational program. The government provides funding to communities to work—

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Yes, we got that. It's not enough, though.

I really want to avoid this tactic of the government ministries oftentimes coming here and saying, “Look at what we've done.” Here at public accounts, our work is to ensure that we actually address the issues pointed out by the Auditor General, and she's saying that all the culture of CMHC and the ministry.... It's the culture that is the issue.

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

I want to correct you there. These programs are delivered by organizations on the ground, not by CMHC.

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

But I want to address the gap. Let's talk about the gap, though.

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

No, but this is the second time you've talked about how the people on the street don't trust CMHC.

These are 1,000 community organizations across the country that have credibility—

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

You said it wasn't enough—

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

I just want to correct something you said. You said that—

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Why won't you answer the question, Minister?

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

I'm trying to answer—

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

What are you going to say to the houseless people in Edmonton?

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Mr. Desjarlais, you're out of time. I will allow the minister to respond briefly, though.

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

I just want you to acknowledge that there are 5,000 community-owned projects that are delivered by 1,000 organizations on the ground, not by CMHC.

By the way, we do have a dedicated indigenous homelessness stream delivered by indigenous governments and communities.

We are already implementing a number of the recommendations of the Auditor General, including expanding coordinated access.

Is there more to be done? Absolutely. Are child and welfare services a pipeline to homelessness? For sure, and we have to deal with that, but to suggest that somehow CMHC is the bureaucratic entity that is delivering these services is not true.

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

That's what the Auditor General—

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Thank you very much. We will come back to you, Mr. Desjarlais.

Turning now to the start of our second round, there will be six members with various lengths of time questioning the minister.

I said, we will consider Ms. Sinclair‑Desgagné's motion on the Monday after next week's break.

Mr. Perkins, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for coming.

You are the lead or the sole minister responsible for the national housing strategy for the Liberal government. Is that correct?

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

Yes.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Thank you.

So the results of this audit by the Auditor General.... Ultimately, the responsibility for the performance rests with you.

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

That's correct.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Thank you.

I'd like to follow up on an earlier question.

The CMHC annual report lists that for Canada to get to housing affordability and to essentially be out of this housing crisis, if I understand correctly, 3.5 million houses need to be built by 2030. If I heard you correctly—and correct me if I'm wrong—you said that this will be done by 2030. Is that correct?