Evidence of meeting #7 for Public Accounts in the 44th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was program.
A video is available from Parliament.
Deputy Auditor General, Office of the Auditor General
I don't know the answer to this question, but perhaps Ms. Leach could answer it.
Principal, Office of the Auditor General
The organization is “La Tablée des chefs”, in Quebec, but I don't know exactly which regions it serves.
Conservative
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Williamson
Mr. Desjarlais, you have the floor.
You have two and a half minutes.
NDP
Blake Desjarlais NDP Edmonton Griesbach, AB
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
I want to thank my colleagues again for your support on some of this really important work, especially, Mr. Dong. Thank you for those questions. It really helps to expand my time in many ways.
I want to get right into it. Deputy Minister Quan-Watson, I want to be able to give you some time to respond to some of the questions that were asked.
You mentioned that there were two groups that were consulted in relation to the nutrition north Canada subsidy program. I want to know which groups they are. Was that prior to COVID or during COVID?
Deputy Minister, Department of Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs
It has been throughout. It is a program that has existed for a considerable period of time. In order to run the program, we have those groups. I'm looking for the formal names, so that I don't get them wrong. I will come up with them in a moment, but one is an Inuit group that we're working with in a Crown partnership and there is another specific committee we have been working with for a long time. I'd be happy to get you the formal name later.
I can tell you that depending on what the recipient group chooses to do, yes, snowmobiles can be available. That is decided by the Inuit themselves, typically in the north, or others who are eligible for the harvester grants.
NDP
Blake Desjarlais NDP Edmonton Griesbach, AB
To clarify, those are just two groups, however, and there are many Inuit groups. The deputy minister knows that. Is that correct?
Deputy Minister, Department of Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs
Sorry, this isn't just two individual.... This is a consulted thing for the entire north. Virtually every Inuit community is eligible for the harvester grants. That would be true for virtually every Inuit community in the north covered by nutrition north.
NDP
Blake Desjarlais NDP Edmonton Griesbach, AB
So you're comfortable saying that every Inuit person in the north can have access to this program.
Deputy Minister, Department of Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs
Yes, I'm comfortable saying that. There may be some odd circumstances, but it is a program that is of general application throughout the nutrition north-covered area, which includes just about everything north of 60. Fort Chipewyan, for example, in Alberta is, I believe, the only community that is covered.
Deputy Minister, Department of Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs
It was before, during and as we're coming out of it now, we might be able to say afterwards.
NDP
Blake Desjarlais NDP Edmonton Griesbach, AB
I'm trying to get to the point of why the Auditor General says there were no consultations.
Deputy Minister, Department of Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs
They're referring to only a small portion of the funding. In other words, we have a program that we've consulted on heavily. We did an injection of cash into that program, because we knew there were particular challenges coming out of COVID. The needs that were there, and the processes to distribute those resources, were ones that we worked very closely with communities across the north on. We were simply giving more money for them to do the same things. It wasn't a different program. It wasn't—
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Williamson
Thank you very much.
We will turn now to Mr. Lawrence for five minutes.
Conservative
Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to all of the agriculture and agri-processor workers out there, who have kept us fed throughout this pandemic. It's amazing work. I'm sure our whole committee would like to thank them for that great work.
I'd like to start out with a bit of commentary, and then I will get to the question.
Access to safe, nutritious and sufficient food is a basic need. As such, protecting our food system is absolutely imperative. Despite the government having identified food as a critical infrastructure sector, Agriculture and Agri-Food failed to develop a national emergency preparedness plan prior to the COVID-19 pandemic. This forced the bureaucracy to cobble together ad hoc programs under immense pressure. While the challenges for the agriculture and agri-processing industries were very real, the Auditor General states at paragraph 12.88 that “problems with data and performance measurement meant that the departments and agencies we audited did not know whether the initiatives had achieved all of their outcomes for reducing food insecurity or supporting the resilience of food processors in the agriculture and agri-food and the fish and seafood sectors.”
To be blunt, we had no plan, we had no accountability and we had no measurable results, and tens of millions of taxpayers' dollars were spent.
It's a simple question. At the heart of the food security—or insecurity—program is that Canada can feed itself. Can Mr. Forbes tell us, with confidence, if there is a natural disaster or a cessation of trade or any significant geopolitical issue, that Canada can feed itself today without the aid of other countries?
Deputy Minister, Department of Agriculture and Agri-Food
I would say that we showed, over the course of the pandemic, with a very significant disruption and some programming and other efforts, that obviously we were able to feed ourselves.
I will say that the food supply chain is an integrated one, particularly in North America. I think we have to be very cognizant of the risks in certain cases of border movement, in particular, for food security. I think that, if the borders were all to close and we had a significant event, Canada does have sufficient food supply to feed itself. We may have less diverse food supply. There are obviously some things we don't produce in Canada—in particular, fruits out of season—but we would have enough food supply to feed ourselves.
Conservative
Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON
I'll go back to you, Mr. Forbes.
With respect to paragraph 12.61.... Some of my colleagues have already asked questions about this, and I thank the Auditor General for some of his clarifying statements. I'm troubled by this process we have in place—if we can call it a process—for the emergency food security fund. We had a task force put together. That task force was designed to issue dollars or support to organizations. All of the recipients were members of that task force. The Auditor General—thank you for clarifying—found there was no wrongdoing in his investigation.
Just the process of that.... Mr. Forbes, do you not see the challenge and the conflict of interest of people setting up a program to reward themselves with government money?
Deputy Minister, Department of Agriculture and Agri-Food
The programs were developed by Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada. We would have consulted with stakeholders about potential mechanisms for delivery and issues we might need to address.
However, programs that we deliver or fund go through a regular process, which is cabinet approval, etc. Programs are not developed by stakeholder groups.
We would certainly consult throughout about needs, design issues, concerns, timing, etc., but in the end, we are the ones responsible for the design and the structure of our programs.
Conservative
Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON
I'll turn to Mr. Hayes at this point, the deputy Auditor General.
Conservative
Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON
Okay.
When you're doing reviews in terms of sole-sourced contracts and other procurement issues, do you review for political donations amongst the recipients?
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Williamson
I'm going to cut you off. You'll have to come back to that, I'm afraid. Thank you.
Mr. Fragiskatos, you have five minutes. It's nice to see you again, sir.
