Public Accounts Committee on Oct. 19th, 2023

[Karen Hogan]

It's concerning for me when I look at how many systems are seen as being in poor health. Poor health could mean the they're old platforms or older technology, or that vendor support is limited, but also that there are security vulnerabilities. Bad actors continue to be much more creative when it comes to cyber-attacks. That's why I was happy to see the prioritization of modernizing the three systems that feed such critical benefits to Canadians.

Absolutely, that's why changing has to be taken seriously. It shouldn't be rushed. You have to consider the privacy and security of information. There are a lot of factors. It's not as simple as buying something off the shelf and putting it into place. It means that you need to have a good plan. You also need to have prudent management of funds. You can't just keep spending. They have to come hand in hand with knowing where you're going, but also managing the costs associated with them.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

Thank you. I have one last question.

With respect to “Report 9: Processing Applications for Permanent Residence”, have we looked at what the impact is of the temporary resident files on the processing times for permanent residence? Is that a comparable measure that you've looked at?

[Karen Hogan]

Do you mean the timeline that it takes to approve temporary foreign workers?

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

There's temporary residence and there are visitor visas, work permits, business visas, etc.

[Karen Hogan]

There's a whole other set of programs and dedicated individuals looking at temporary residence applications. Those spike when school starts. It's a whole other set of programs. There are many programs. In fact, for permanent residence, there are 50 programs in the department and we looked at eight. It's a complex web.

Understanding the timelines might be something better asked of the department, since we focused on permanent residence in this chapter.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

Thank you. I'll ask one more, if that's fine.

We talk about modernizing the way the IRCC applications are processed. I know artificial intelligence has been a big part of that conversation.

What do you think would be some of the shortcomings of AI, and what would be the benefits? It links to all of these reports about modernizing, but it's also being inclusive and sensitive to diversity within the workforce.

[Karen Hogan]

We saw that the department tried to automate some of its application processing in that initial triaging to ensure that an application had key elements and then was routed on. What we saw there was that applications from certain countries—for example, Haiti—were more consistently routed for manual applications, which were taking longer. The department didn't analyze why that was happening.

To link it to your artificial intelligence question, I would say I have concerns. When IT systems are put in place to speed up processes and there is no reflection afterward about whether there were biases introduced in how it was designed, or whether it accesses information or publicly available information that maybe contains misinformation...those are all things to be concerned with as you automate or turn to artificial intelligence.

I will always be concerned about maintaining the privacy of anyone's personal information. This is an area—automating permanent resident applications—that needs to be looked at closely, since it is people's personal information that is being handled. It should be well safeguarded.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Thanks very much, all of you.

The bells are ringing, but I'm going to ask members to hold on for a minute or two.

Ms. Hogan, I thank you and your entire team from the Office of the Auditor General for being here today. I know you have a busy day. You are certainly excused right now. We're going to do a little housekeeping, but please don't let us hold you back any longer. Thank you again. We will see you back here, of course, for the study of these reports.

Colleagues, I will remind you that on Tuesday of next week we have a study on the rehabilitation of Parliament's Centre Block. For Thursday, I want to propose a subcommittee meeting for the first hour so that we can begin to map out our next moves and plan out the calendar for the clerk. That will be followed with the line-by-line on emergency management in first nations communities, I believe. Please look for that.

As well, because we have votes, with your approval I'm going to adjourn this meeting. I won't call you back just before noon. We don't have any time after noon. Is that acceptable?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

All right. We'll see you back here on Tuesday.

This meeting is adjourned.