I have a point of order, Chair.
Evidence of meeting #81 for Public Accounts in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was ncc.
A video is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #81 for Public Accounts in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was ncc.
A video is available from Parliament.
11:10 a.m.
Liberal
Iqra Khalid Liberal Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON
When we invite witnesses to committee, we owe them respect, and should not badger them.
I would ask, through you, Chair, if Mr. Stewart could be a bit more respectful to our witness.
11:10 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Williamson
One question like that is certainly far from badgering.
Obviously, these two witnesses have certain lines of responsibility. Just for everyone's awareness, the NCC will be coming in to see us, we anticipate, after the recess week.
It's back to you, Mr. Stewart. I did pause the clock. You have just under two minutes.
11:10 a.m.
Conservative
Jake Stewart Conservative Miramichi—Grand Lake, NB
There was a marketing and communications firm engaged. Do you know why?
11:10 a.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Policy, Planning and Communications, Department of Public Works and Government Services
The short answer to the question is no. What I would say is—
11:10 a.m.
Conservative
11:10 a.m.
Executive Director, Policy, Planning and Performance, Priorities and Planning Sector, Treasury Board Secretariat
No, we do not. That would be a question that you would have to address to the National Capital Commission.
11:10 a.m.
Conservative
Jake Stewart Conservative Miramichi—Grand Lake, NB
Nobody knows anything.
Were any of the construction contracts...? Actually, what was the initial approved budget for the $8-million barn?
11:15 a.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Policy, Planning and Communications, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Within the National Capital Commission's corporate plans, it identifies the overall expenditures it will be undertaking based on its entire budget. It breaks that budget down based on large categories, including upkeep and maintenance of things like the entire suite of official residences. This specific issue was not identified as a separate line item, so I don't know the initial budget. As part of its planning, it would have had budgets and budget projections.
11:15 a.m.
Conservative
Jake Stewart Conservative Miramichi—Grand Lake, NB
Can you explain the procurement process for the $8-million barn?
11:15 a.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Policy, Planning and Communications, Department of Public Works and Government Services
The National Capital Commission can answer, but one of the things I would point out is that, as a Crown corporation, the National Capital Commission operates much more as a private sector entity and therefore is not subject to most of the policies and rules from the Treasury Board that would, for example, apply to departments or agencies.
11:15 a.m.
Conservative
Jake Stewart Conservative Miramichi—Grand Lake, NB
It's safe to say that the sole-sourcing of contracts was more than possible.
11:15 a.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Policy, Planning and Communications, Department of Public Works and Government Services
They have flexibility in terms of how they undertake their procurements. I don't know what processes they use—
11:15 a.m.
Conservative
Jake Stewart Conservative Miramichi—Grand Lake, NB
I'll take that as a yes.
How many contracts in total?
11:15 a.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Policy, Planning and Communications, Department of Public Works and Government Services
I'm sorry, Mr. Chair, but I don't know the answer to that question.
11:15 a.m.
Conservative
Jake Stewart Conservative Miramichi—Grand Lake, NB
So you don't know how many subcontracts, either. You don't know how many bidders. You don't know anything about their procurement.
11:15 a.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Policy, Planning and Communications, Department of Public Works and Government Services
No. Their procurement process is operational. Given the arm's-length nature of Crown corporations, it is the responsibility of the organization to manage itself in accordance with the applicable rules.
11:15 a.m.
Conservative
11:15 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Williamson
Thank you. That is the time, Mr. Stewart.
I'm turning now to Ms. Bradford.
You have the floor for six minutes, please.
October 31st, 2023 / 11:15 a.m.
Liberal
Valerie Bradford Liberal Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to the witnesses for coming today.
I know it's unfortunate that the NCC person isn't available because they're on vacation, and I know you may not have answers to some of these questions.
I was just wondering, Mr. Ieraci, in what level of detail does the NCC report its line item spending to PSPC?
11:15 a.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Policy, Planning and Communications, Department of Public Works and Government Services
As a Crown corporation, the organization doesn't have the obligation to report to PSPC. What it does is that it prepares a corporate plan on an annual basis, which basically identifies the activities that it will undertake based on the totality of its budget.
They break down those activities in large buckets of activities, for lack of a better term, and that corporate plan is reviewed by the department in support of the Minister of Public Services and Procurement, to be able to ensure that the activities the Crown corporation is going to undertake are aligned with the general government direction. Based on that, the minister recommends the corporate plan for approval by Treasury Board.
11:15 a.m.
Liberal
Valerie Bradford Liberal Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON
Does the NCC have to seek approval from PSPC before embarking on projects? If so, which ones?
11:15 a.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Policy, Planning and Communications, Department of Public Works and Government Services
No, they are not required to seek endorsement or approval from the Department of Public Services and Procurement. As an arm's-length organization or Crown corporation, they actually don't require the department's approval to be able to move forward.
11:15 a.m.
Liberal
Valerie Bradford Liberal Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON
They have complete autonomy to decide what they're going to pursue and the budget for it.