Evidence of meeting #88 for Public Accounts in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was education.
A video is available from Parliament.
12:05 p.m.
Bloc
The Vice-Chair Bloc Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné
That's too bad, but we understand.
Thank you, Minister Hajdu.
I'll now suspend the meeting.
12:30 p.m.
Bloc
The Vice-Chair Bloc Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné
We'll now continue the meeting.
Before giving the floor to Ms. Khalid, I'd like to ask the clerk a question.
Given all the disruptions today, could we extend the meeting by a few minutes?
Would you be willing to stay at least another fifteen minutes or so, Mr. Taquet?
Does everyone agree that the committee should continue the meeting for a bit longer?
Do the witnesses agree?
12:30 p.m.
Liberal
Iqra Khalid Liberal Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON
Does that mean we're staying until 1:15? I have a hard stop at one o'clock.
12:30 p.m.
Bloc
The Vice-Chair Bloc Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné
Do the other committee members agree that we should sit until 1:15 p.m.?
Otherwise, we'll have only 28 minutes left. I'm worried that we won't have enough time for the people who came here. I suggest that we sit until 1:15 p.m.
12:30 p.m.
Liberal
12:30 p.m.
Bloc
The Vice-Chair Bloc Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné
Thank you, Ms. Khalid. I appreciate it.
You have the floor for three minutes.
12:30 p.m.
Liberal
Iqra Khalid Liberal Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON
Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
I will ask you, as obviously the minister is now gone. I was curious about the Atlantic water authority structure and its practical role in supporting first nations communities with water system monitoring. Can you help us understand how that works?
12:30 p.m.
Director General, Community Infrastructure, Department of Indigenous Services
Thank you for the question.
The Atlantic First Nations Water Authority has been designed and controlled by first nations over the last 10 years, and its function is largely akin to how municipalities run services. I was talking earlier about the need for first nations to manage and control their capital and their operations. The Atlantic First Nations Water Authority will now do that for up to 17 first nations in Atlantic Canada in all of the Atlantic provinces.
That comes with a significant cost. Indigenous Services Canada is supporting the Atlantic First Nations Water Authority to the tune of $257 million over 10 years. It comes with considerable resources, but it also means that first nations organizations will manage and support first nations in their own affairs. That's a significant shift, and it's part of the departmental legislation that created Indigenous Services Canada, which is largely to support the transfer of programs and services to rights holders and to those organizations.
We're proud to work with the Atlantic First Nations Water Authority and recognize that they're the first organization to be in this space. We hope that many other first nations aggregates and institutions will follow that model, not only in the water space but also in other core areas that have been discussed today, and in others like housing and general infrastructure.
12:35 p.m.
Liberal
Iqra Khalid Liberal Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON
If I may ask, how do you measure the success of such an authority? How do we know they're actually fulfilling the mandates that the communities and government want them to?
12:35 p.m.
Director General, Community Infrastructure, Department of Indigenous Services
That's a great question.
Mandates come from first nations leadership. Certainly, the Atlantic First Nations Water Authority, as an indigenous institution, is accountable to its constituents or the people it's providing services to. Indigenous Services Canada has a funding relationship with the Atlantic First Nations Water Authority that is based on a series of deliverables, but the deliverables, I think, require consideration as the deliverables and improved services that Atlantic first nations people will experience through an institution that's managed by a first nations entity.
Not only that relationship with it, in which we will remain a partner with Atlantic First Nations Water Authority, but the development of that institution and the relationship and accountability it has for leadership and the citizens it provides services to are critical. That includes clean drinking water, waste water, fire flow and other components that were illuminated by the Auditor General. That's a tremendous success in Atlantic Canada.
12:35 p.m.
Bloc
The Vice-Chair Bloc Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné
Thank you, Ms. Khalid.
There's another call for a vote in the House.
If everyone agrees, we'll carry on as we did earlier, while the bell rings for 30 minutes.
This is quite a meeting for a chair. It's really something special.
It's my turn to speak for two and a half minutes.
I want to thank the witnesses for joining us.
My questions concern the follow‑up to our meeting on June 14, 2022.
Ms. Wilson, my questions are mainly for you. Your predecessor, Ms. Fox, was at that meeting.
I asked her what deadlines had been set since 2021—it was 2022—to implement items such as infrastructure plans to address water‑related infrastructure issues.
Ms. Fox responded that she would look into the situation and provide the requested figures. She did this through the department and the clerk of the committee. However, in her response, which I have here, she notes that the first stage of engagement activities to close the infrastructure gap will be completed in 2023.
It's the end of 2023. How far along are you in terms of completing the first stage of engagement activities to close the infrastructure gap?
November 30th, 2023 / 12:35 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Indigenous Services
Thank you, Madam Chair.
We haven't completely closed the gap, but we have a plan.
Mr. Barbosa can elaborate on this.
12:35 p.m.
Bloc
The Vice-Chair Bloc Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné
Could you provide this plan? Have you already sent it to the committee members?
Last year, we were told that the first stage would be completed by 2023. However, you're saying that it won't be finished by 2023.
When will the first stage be completed, Ms. Wilson?
When will the infrastructure or investment gaps be closed?
12:35 p.m.
Director General, Community Infrastructure, Department of Indigenous Services
Thank you for the question.
First, I had the pleasure of attending that meeting as well, with Deputy Fox. In the period between that discussion and today, we have engaged first nations from coast to coast to coast on essentially the question about what are some of the paramount infrastructure needs that would be seen in a given community. That was extended to colleagues and to Crown-Indigenous Relations, where they engaged the ITK and MNC on similar questions.
We're proud to announce that we had a tremendously high response from first nations: 72% of first nations came forward to identify their needs in a robust way. We're in the period of consolidating that data. Some of the core findings include the need for continued funding in core areas like community infrastructure, water, which we're discussing today, and the continued need for planning. We're in the process of putting a capstone on that report.
I want to thank first nations for their ongoing participation. Of course, the data collection on infrastructure needs never ends, but we have a good milestone in terms of the overall quantum of need and the prioritization of first nations relative to their infrastructure priorities.
12:40 p.m.
Bloc
The Vice-Chair Bloc Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné
Thank you, Ms. Wilson and Mr. Barbosa.
I'll give the floor to Mr. Dalton, and then Mr. Desjarlais can speak.
If everyone agrees, we'll proceed.
Mr. Dalton, you have the floor for five minutes.
12:40 p.m.
Conservative
Marc Dalton Conservative Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC
Thank you very much.
Thank you for joining us here today.
I have some simple questions for whoever is responsible for education or is the spokesperson for education.
I don't mean to be patronizing as I ask this, but what skills are needed or what education would be needed to be a doctor or a nurse? What are some of the basic skills in the education field?
12:40 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Indigenous Services
Do you mean what skills are required among Canadians?
12:40 p.m.
Conservative
Marc Dalton Conservative Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC
Yes. What skills and what type of education would you need to become a doctor?
12:40 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Indigenous Services
You'd need to go to medical school and graduate from medical school.
12:40 p.m.
Conservative
Marc Dalton Conservative Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC
What subject skills would you need to excel in?
12:40 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Indigenous Services
Science, chemistry, biology....
12:40 p.m.
Conservative
Marc Dalton Conservative Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC
Thank you. That's correct.
I was a teacher for many years. I know it depends on the type of teacher, but what would be some basic skills you would need to be a teacher?
12:40 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Indigenous Services
You would need to be able to adapt to children and be able to work in a school setting. You'd need a Bachelor of Education, perhaps.
12:40 p.m.
Conservative
Marc Dalton Conservative Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC
Thank you. Those would be some of the things: the ability to read, to write, to communicate. In the trades, if someone wanted to become a heavy-equipment operator or a welder, obviously, they would need training in the vocational skills.
The point of the matter I'm trying to get to is that—I found it a bit offensive with the minister, and I wish she were here—she kept talking about colonial metrics. That's a bit patronizing. I'm indigenous. I'm Métis. Indigenous people want good-paying jobs. They need real skills and education. They don't need fluff. They don't want participation ribbons. They want those skills. I'm a little tired of hearing from the Liberal benches and from others about the other metrics. We want to participate, to be involved in society and to benefit our families, our first nations, our communities and our country. That is really important.
It's very concerning when we hear that the on-reserve graduation rates are decreasing. It's adopting this and it's going lower. It's like we're watering it down. This is not helpful for first nations and for Métis people. I'm appalled by the “woke” speaking from the minister before us. It is not getting boiled down to opportunities.
My aunts and uncles attended residential schools. My father was sent to another residential school so that he wouldn't have to attend the same residential school, but one thing he emphasized was for us, as a family and as children, to get a good education. I have one sister who is a judge, one who is a lawyer and another who is a nurse. Emphasizing education is what first nations and Métis people need, and not just hearing “This is for the world, and this is for the indigenous people.” I'm sorry. We want to succeed and to do well in this society.
I'm just venting a bit—nothing personal towards you—about some of these games that are not helpful to lift first nations out of poverty, on the reserves or anywhere. We want to see that development.
I was an MLA in British Columbia until 2017. At that time, we found that there wasn't funding on the reserves. It was challenging for many of the first nations to get some of the support. I haven't really followed closely, and maybe there's some good news. Has there been some real development—particularly in B.C., and I guess across Canada—with regard to the standards on reserves as opposed to the provincial standards? Has there been a real improvement in investment and in graduation rates on reserves? I actually have the answers already.