Public Accounts Committee on Dec. 5th, 2023

[Christiane Fox]

I'd say it's been steady around 30% for the past few years and could fluctuate in the next few years, but that percentage is more or less the current norm.

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

Would you be able to provide the committee with accurate statistics for the past three years?

[Christiane Fox]

If you're still referring to the percentage of people whose temporary resident status in Canada has changed to permanent resident status, yes, we can provide them to you.

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

All right.

My next questions are for you, Ms. Fox and Ms. Dorion.

At what level are these departmental reports prepared?

Are they prepared by assistant deputy ministers, directors general or people in lower-level positions in the departmental hierarchy?

[Marie-Josée Dorion]

The reports are generated by teams of course.

I regularly receive them in my capacity as senior assistant deputy minister. I even received one just yesterday.

So the situation is being monitored. We ensure that these cases are processed. We take immediate measures if any of them seem to be pending for too long.

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

How frequently are these reports generated? Is it every week, every two weeks, every month?

[Marie-Josée Dorion]

They're generated every month.

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

Could the committee have a copy?

[Marie-Josée Dorion]

I imagine that's possible, provided confidentiality rules are complied with and names are redacted.

We can provide them to you on Monday.

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

Mr. Chair, I'm just confirming that we can get that for this committee.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

That's very good.

Thank you.

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

Perfect.

I'll continue now on a different matter. It goes back to the management action plan.

One of the reports talks about developing a pilot program “to test methodologies and [gain] insights about the best ways to collect, analyze, and use race‑based and ethnocultural data”.

Will self-identified religious affiliation also be part of this analysis and the response?

[Christiane Fox]

I think we're still developing what that will look like. Back in 2022 we went out to survey some of our clients. First of all, it was to see how many of them would be willing to self-identify with their racial and ethnic identity. In that case, 91% were open to sharing their data.

In terms of the work we have ahead of us, what type of data should we be collecting? How can we work with StatsCan to ensure that we have the right methodologies? I think that will be very important for us as we look at this work. These are sometimes privacy-intrusive activities. How do we put the right safeguards in place to protect not only the data but also how the data is used, making sure we have sort of an ethical and privacy frame to that?

I won't comment on what will be in and out at the end of the day, because that work is still being done, but we take note of your comments.

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

Did you ask your clients and stakeholders and all the other people whether they think religious affiliation should be tracked by your department?

[Christiane Fox]

I think the only question we asked so far was racial and ethnic, but we could go back and look at the surveying. We're going to do more surveying of our clients. That could be a question that we could add to the survey.

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

I ask that because the citizenship and immigration committee has repeatedly asked for religious affiliation to be tracked. That is one of the main ways of persecution overseas. It's a source of persecution against people. Lots of people have names that basically identify what their religious affiliation will be. I'm thinking of Armenians in the Middle East as being a very easily identifiable group.

Your department continues to insist that they don't collect the data. Fine, and I understand it, but the final completion date for this action plan says April 1, 2025. You have lots of time to consider this. I believe you should go back and ask whether religious affiliation should be tracked. It is one of the main reasons that people are persecuted all over the world. Different religions are persecuted in different majority countries, and they are always minority religious affiliations. I'm thinking of Pakistan as another example of where minority religious communities like Sikhs are persecuted as well, but so are the Ahmadiyya. They are also persecuted.

I meet with many of these client stakeholder groups. I'm sure if you prompted now.... I'm just surprised your department didn't ask the question. I'm wondering why that is.

[Christiane Fox]

It's a survey that we started with phases of work that we would go out with. We can see what the next steps are.

I think there's also probably a worry in the system around clients wanting to share that type of information and being very worried about what would happen if they were to share it. I think it is worth going out and being very specific in getting that data and getting people's comfort level. Clearly, with the data that we have—91%—we're comfortable sharing the other pieces of the data.

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

Deputy Minister, in budget 2023, the IRPA was amended to clarify that the minister could give instructions regarding the processing of sponsorship applications. That has not been enforced yet. Is that correct?

[Christiane Fox]

Here's what I would say. For the privately sponsored refugees, I completely acknowledge that right now the wait time is very high. I think this is—

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

I'm just asking about whether that system is in place. Can the minister issue instructions?

[Christiane Fox]

He can issue instructions.

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

Right now?

[Christiane Fox]

I believe everything.... I would have to check, actually.

It's a yes for PSR intake.

[Marie-Josée Dorion]

Yes, we have the legislative power to do it. We're working on defining and working the details out. That's coming up, but it's not in effect yet.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

That is the time, I'm afraid. We're a little over.

Ms. Shanahan, you have the floor for five minutes.