Evidence of meeting #99 for Public Accounts in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was cbsa.
A video is available from Parliament.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
Larry Brock Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON
Ms. O'Gorman, this is my time.
Who else did you identify to the RCMP besides MacDonald and Utano?
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
Brenda Shanahan Liberal Châteauguay—Lacolle, QC
Chair, on a point of order, does that not compromise RCMP investigations?
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Williamson
Ms. O'Gorman is here to answer questions, and she will do so.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Williamson
It is not out of bounds. These are committee questions, and we have great latitude to ask questions on Parliament Hill. Witnesses will answer the questions to the best of their ability.
Ms. O'Gorman, you have the floor.
4:15 p.m.
President, Canada Border Services Agency
Mr. MacDonald didn't blame anything on me, and—
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
4:15 p.m.
President, Canada Border Services Agency
The question was put to him whether he felt a series of individuals were being honest, and to my name he said, “I wouldn't think so.” I don't know what he was referring to. He provided no more information. He did not say that.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
4:15 p.m.
President, Canada Border Services Agency
I did not identify anybody to the RCMP. The CBSA received allegations from Botler that were serious enough for me to launch—
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
Larry Brock Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON
You told me earlier at committee that you referred the matter to the RCMP.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
Larry Brock Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON
This is my time.
You told me earlier that you referred the matter to the RCMP. Did you simply furnish the Botler allegation to the RCMP, or did you ask the RCMP to investigate Mr. MacDonald and Mr. Utano at the exclusion of anybody else?
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Williamson
Thank you, Mr. Brock.
We'll hear from Ms. O'Gorman.
You have the floor for a brief answer.
4:15 p.m.
President, Canada Border Services Agency
I launched an internal investigation, and the investigators provided that information to the RCMP.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Williamson
Thank you very much.
Next we have Ms. Bradford for five minutes.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
Valerie Bradford Liberal Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to the witnesses.
I appreciate the Auditor General and her team and this very challenging report. It's a challenging report for two reasons: one, because of its findings, and two, because it actually raises more questions than it answers due to the incomplete and unclear records and processes that were being practised at the time.
I'm particularly glad the CBSA is here, hopefully to provide some answers.
To start, Ms. O'Gorman, can you tell us why the CBSA disregarded Public Services and Procurement Canada's recommendations about the use of competitive contracts?
4:20 p.m.
President, Canada Border Services Agency
I can tell you that under my leadership, CBSA will not disregard PSPC's advice and concerns. Why that may have happened, I don't know.
4:20 p.m.
Liberal
Valerie Bradford Liberal Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON
I wonder if you have any insight as to why CBSA awarded a non-competitive professional services contract to 49 Solutions after the firm sent in an unsolicited proposal. Why would that proposal be accepted?
4:20 p.m.
President, Canada Border Services Agency
Again, that's part of what we're looking at.
I will say that I know, from my previous job at the Treasury Board Secretariat, that at the beginning of the pandemic industry provided many departments with unsolicited proposals in an effort to be helpful. Perhaps some of those were for personal gain. I think a lot of them were for public service.
The contract you cite, I don't know if that was an effort to be helpful and it was in response to something the CBSA needed at the time or if it was something different.