Public Accounts Committee on April 20th, 2026

[Lieutenant-General Stephen Kelsey, Vice Chief of the Defence Staff, Canadian Armed Forces, Department of National Defence]

The shortage of trained personnel, as is fairly evident, is what constrains our ability to operate in and around the world. To a point that Erick made, it's also constraining our ability to grow and expand. The master sailors, corporals, master corporals, who are the engine of generating growth, are the same folks we need to employ elsewhere, so it's a strategic choice.

We could, based on the number of folks who have demonstrated interest in joining the force, take them all at once, but it would pull people out of the ready force. It would stop our ability to be present around the world, and particularly here in Canada. It is an interdependent system, but it's all the more reason that growth is important, and it's the reason General Simoneau is accelerating. We grew by 2,000 folks last year, the previous year and almost the same this year.

[Jean Yip, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

There are eight steps from recruitment to being a trained officer. It's noted that there's been a need to modernize the recruitment process. That was one of the recommendations. What is being done?

The options now are preapply, apply, process, offer, enrol, basic training and occupational training to become a trained Canadian Armed Forces member. It seems to be a long time from when they first demonstrate their interest.

[Christiane Fox]

On what is being done, I would first point to how, in the recruitment process, we've launched a new portal called “This Is For You”. It allows an applicant to virtually experience what it is to be in the army, the navy and the air force. In my view, that is an important part of exposing someone to what those careers could offer.

Following on that, we are absolutely modernizing our online system, because we have to have user-friendly processes for people to submit their applications. It has to be modern, in the context of their ability to do it from their smart phone and go through those steps. That digital experience is important as they navigate.

Then, at the back end of that, we need to have a case management system that takes a “tell me once” approach. You come in through the portal, and there has been some work on the basic training lists across all organizations, among army, navy and air force, to make determinations about where people are at and to make sure that those in the system are talking to one another. We moved from a system that was quite separated and unique to a more integrated intake, so that we can track and know where people are at in their training and what their next steps are. There's more work to be done, but this digital approach will help us in addressing some of the challenges that were raised through the AG report.

Because of the question of digital, I would also say that an important component is looking at how digital can help us in training. We have really important in-person training that has to take place, but if we can do some of that online, then we can maximize some of the in-person efforts while dealing with some of the other pieces remotely. That can then have a greater throughput for our applicants, and our recruitment system can move more people through the process and give them that really valuable experience they need.

[Jean Yip, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Is AI being used to streamline the applicant process to shorten the time?

[Christiane Fox]

It is. There's an automation. I think we'll have to evolve the AI further as we roll out this system. We've rolled out version one. However, as we indicated in our management action plan, we will continuously update, with the goal of completion in March 2028 of an integrated data management that will benefit from AI tools built into it.

[Jean Yip, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

What are some of the strategies used to attract a more diverse and inclusive group of Canadians to the Canadian Armed Forces?

[LGen Erick Simoneau]

Thank you for the question.

In terms of diversity, I'm very proud to report that we did really well—great, actually—last year. We onboarded, in terms of racialized people, 33.7% of our strategic intake last year, of a target of 12%. This is in large part thanks to the permanent resident line of effort that we're bringing inside the forces. There were 1,400 of them over the last year, which is the greatest number we've ever had. This is very helpful for us to face the volatility and complexity of the world that we already have today but that certainly we will have tomorrow. We need diversity of thought. We need people to not groupthink on issues. Therefore, onboarding diversity is really important to us, and we are delivering on it.

In terms of indigenous, which also speaks to diversity and is so important to us, we are expanding our recruiting centres footprint. For example, as we speak now, we don't have a recruiting centre in Yellowknife. That doesn't make sense, so we will have one. We're moving ahead with this. In Saskatoon, it's the same thing. We're getting closer to where we could have rangers as well, so at Prince...and the like. We have an expansion. We have only 21 recruiting centres across Canada. We want to add 18, and they all have in common that we're going to bring ourselves closer to communities.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Thank you.

That is your time, Ms. Yip.

You have the floor for six minutes, Mr. Lemire.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you once again, Ms. Fox, for joining us this week.

This is not the first audit to show that the Canadian Armed Forces has recruitment challenges. I'm thinking of the CF‑35 aircraft audit, in which the Auditor General's office once again highlighted the potential shortage of pilots and technicians. That followed another report from 2018, which also raised the possibility of gaps on this front.

What lessons have been drawn from the action plan to address the 2018 recommendations? The plan has ultimately not yielded any results in seven years.

What lessons have you drawn from that?

[Christiane Fox]

Thank you for that question.

We have learned from the 2018 report and have implemented action plans. However, we're proposing new elements today thanks to the funding we've received. We couldn't propose them in response to the first report of the Auditor General or the 2018 report you mentioned.

We have drawn some lessons and course corrected, especially with regard to pilots and aircraft maintenance personnel. We have certainly made some changes, but I think the compensation and benefit measures announced over the past year will address some of the gaps that pose the biggest obstacles to recruiting and retaining talent.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

An interesting thing happened this morning. I don't know if it was a coincidence or not, but just before the committee meeting, Radio-Canada announced that recruitment was at its highest level in 30 years. I think that was a clever piece of communication.

The bottom line is that we're also in a global context where there's significant pressure on the military.

Does that have an impact on applicants who wish to join the Canadian Armed Forces? There's more and more pressure, and more countries are spending money to arm themselves. Since no government is going to acknowledge that it has spent money for nothing, a conflict will have to erupt at one time or another.

Is that drawing people to enrol? Does it motivate them to come and work for the forces?

[LGen Erick Simoneau]

Regardless of why people want to join the Canadian Armed Forces, we welcome them with open arms, as long as it's for a noble reason. There are many reasons for enrolling, including the economic context, the relationship with our partner to the south, and the new funding for salaries and benefits announced on August 8 last year, which we're implementing throughout the year.

Indeed, our ambition was to recruit 6,957 new members, but we recruited 7,310. That doesn't include folks from the reserve force who have joined the regular force. It represent civilians from outside the forces who came to see us. That is 105% of the goal we set out to achieve.

It's important to understand that we have a pool of 44,000 applicants, and we have screened them for age, citizenship and education. As the vice chief of the defence staff said earlier, we could pick everyone in that pool in one go if we had the necessary training capacity. That is what is holding us back right now. It's like a dimmer switch. Each year, we come up with a strategic recruitment plan based on our training capacity. We need more investments, because we have set a very ambitious goal this year to recruit 8,200 new members in the Canadian Armed Forces. That number is for the regular forces alone. To make that happen, we'll have no choice but to work on our basic training system.

To get a sense of what that goal means, members who've been to Saint-Jean-sur-Richelieu can picture the megaplex there, which has around 3,000 beds. Half that number has to be established at the Borden base to meet the target to recruit 8,000 recruits.

To hit the 8,000 mark, we'll change the onboarding process and use what we call virtual onboarding. We'll no longer spend a week completing paperwork with our new recruits and asking them the same thing over and over. We're going to use a digital tool, and this will shorten every basic training period by one week. We're going to have access to more capacity. However, we have to build a system and purchase equipment to exceed our target to recruit 8,000 recruits.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you for that answer.

Over 100,000 applicants voluntarily withdrew their applications between April 1, 2022 and March 31, 2025. This is more than half of all the people who applied during the period.

What are the main reasons for these withdrawals? Is there a connection with the fact that more processes are now online and ultimately lack human involvement, follow up or elements that motivate applicants to move through the various steps?

[LGen Erick Simoneau]

That's why we really appreciate the Auditor General's report.

As a matter of fact, the recruitment system was underfunded, and as a result, we didn't have enough resources for recruitment. In addition, many of our software systems were not interconnected. In other words, we had a hodgepodge system.

That is what happens without sustainable and predictable funding, but we believe we have that now. By this, I mean the funding we received this year. We're now in a position to implement digital tools that can tell us exactly where we are now.

We didn't even have a digital portal. All we had was a web page with an “apply now” icon where people would seek information.

The Auditor General's office considered the number of clicks in its analysis. Most of the time, people would click a link, show an interest in joining, but they were not necessarily applicants. They were simply seeking information.

Our portal is doing that job now, and we're tracking things closely to find out exactly how far people have gone in the process.

Even so, it's not perfect. Based on the report, the number of days it takes to process applications has dropped from 271 days to 134. My plan is to bring that down to 30 days. There's nothing worse than starting a process, waiting and not knowing how far your application has gone. We don't have a small, automated flag to alert a recruiter that an application has been submitted, but the new system will have that. We're investing heavily in digital, infrastructure and equipment.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Simoneau. We get the feeling that this matter has been taken seriously.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Thank you very much, Mr. Lemire.

We'll now begin our second round.

Mr. Deltell, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent—Akiawenhrahk, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to mention right away that I'll be sharing my time with my colleague Mr. Kuruc.

Good morning, colleagues.

Witnesses, welcome.

Generals, welcome.

Lieutenant‑General Simoneau, we met with you last week.

I'd like to commend Lieutenant‑General Kelsey for serving his country with distinction for the past 41 years.

Lieutenant‑General Kelsey, thank you very much for your service to our country.

Lieutenant‑General Simoneau, the report shows that 103,684 applicants, or 54%, withdrew from the selection process. Earlier, you stated that you had faced significant technical challenges to identify people.

Beyond that, how come so many people, more than 50%, don't make the right choice?

[LGen Erick Simoneau]

I would say that the 103,000 or 104,000 individuals were definitely interested because they clicked our web page, even though they were not necessarily prospective candidates or people who were going to submit an application. Through the portal, we're now using the ACE tool, which allows us to review applications by age, citizenship and education. That means that people have sent us the required documents, that they are really serious and that they have initiated the application process.

The number of people in this database went from 11,000 two years ago to 21,000 last year and 44,000 this year. This shows that some people are keenly interested. In other words, these are real applicants.

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent—Akiawenhrahk, QC]

The report talks about recruitment targets, where the ratio was 1 in 8. In the end, the ratio was 1 in 13. The aim was to process applications within 100 to 150 days, but the actual number was 271 days.

How is it that after 10 years, our armed forces have not been able to overcome the challenges they continue to face?

[Christiane Fox]

An important part of the answer is the funding allocated to attract people and retain them in the Canadian Armed Forces.

Indeed, the process used to be lengthy. As Lieutenant‑General Simoneau has just said, we're now at 134 days, compared with 271 days when the report was prepared. This is an improvement, and we will continue to improve by integrating digital approaches to streamline the recruitment process.

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent—Akiawenhrahk, QC]

I'm now going to cede my time to Mr. Kuruc.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Mr. Kuruc, you have the floor.

[Ned Kuruc, Conservative, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

Thank you, everybody, for joining us today. We really appreciate it.

In February, the Minister of Immigration announced the new express entry category for foreign military applicants to be invited to apply for permanent residence. There were 800 cases of study permits flagged for fraudulent documents, but IRCC didn't follow up on any of those cases.

Are you concerned about this military express entry program since the Auditor General found that they aren't acting on integrity concerns, even though they're aware they exist?

[Christiane Fox]

Thank you for the question.

The express entry allows us to identify talent and draw from permanent residency, and there's a two-step process in the security clearance. There is what the immigration department would manage, and then there's a secondary step that we would manage at the Department of National Defence. We do not rely exclusively on the immigration process.

[Ned Kuruc, Conservative, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

Thank you for that answer.

A reduction of up to $1,500 for some out-of-country deployments was announced last week, I think. These are the men and women who are deployed. They're in active duty, peacekeeping or whatever they're involved with, outside of Canadian borders. I have a hard time with that.

How will this affect recruitment? What message does that send?