Public Accounts Committee on Oct. 7th, 2025

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

We have an excellent interpretation team.

[Peter Hammerschmidt]

There are a lot of infrastructure needs specific to the F‑35. For example, there's a team for flight simulations. There are heating, ventilation and air conditioning needs as well as electrical supply requirements that are really specific to this equipment. Much more space is required for logistics and maintenance of the F‑35. There are also specific requirements for electricity, electrical power and heating, ventilation and air conditioning.

From a security standpoint, very heavy steel plates have to be used throughout the building envelope, which means a lot of extra costs.

We had to redesign the foundations, the columns and the beams because of the weight of those heavy steel plates that are on the building for security purposes.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

You're telling us that these aren't, strictly speaking, U.S. requests.

My time is up. Thank you.

[Peter Hammerschmidt]

This is a requirement of the joint program office.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Thank you very much.

Up next, we have Mr. Kuruc for five minutes, please.

[Ned Kuruc, Conservative, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

I would like to say thank you to all the witnesses who have come today.

Lieutenant-General Speiser-Blanchet, I want to say thank you for your service to Canada. Congratulations on your post, and thank you for everything you're going to do for Canada.

We know that the government has committed to the first 16 planes. The rest, I feel, reading the news and seeing what the Prime Minister is saying, are kind of up in the air. Given the current geopolitical state of the world, how important is it to prioritize obtaining these fifth-generation F-35s?

[Stefanie Beck]

I'll start, and then Jamie will jump in.

The importance of having a fifth-generation aircraft cannot be overstated, because that is what our adversaries have, and our role of deterring them and defending Canada and Canadians means we need to have equipment that will create a dilemma in the minds of our adversaries. We want to look difficult to approach and, in fact, unfriendly.

[Ned Kuruc, Conservative, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

Can I get your remarks as well, Lieutenant-General Speiser-Blanchet?

[LGen Jamie Speiser-Blanchet]

Thank you.

I can absolutely echo what the deputy minister is saying. Our adversaries are advancing in their technologies at a very rapid pace. At the moment, both China and Russia have fifth-generation fighter aircraft and fifth-generation missiles, which are able to go at much greater speeds and with much more lethality and are putting western allies at risk at this moment in time.

Therefore, the sooner Canada is able to transform to a fifth-generation air force.... I'll note that even though the term “fifth generation” is associated with the advanced technology of certain fighter aircraft, it's also going to apply to some of the other aircraft we are procuring in Canada. When we think about the weaponry and the different missiles and weapons that will be acquired, these will also be usable for the P-8 Poseidon for maritime surveillance and the MQ-9B remotely piloted aircraft system, which are very important.

For us, that is a key focus as we transform, and it also speaks to the security requirements that are simply different with this kind of advanced technology, which is necessary to effectively and credibly deter our adversaries.

[Ned Kuruc, Conservative, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

For someone like you, who I would consider the expert, is it concerning that the Prime Minister is having second thoughts about fulfilling the second part of that contract?

[LGen Jamie Speiser-Blanchet]

I am very committed to providing the Prime Minister with all of the information he needs to make a reasoned judgment, and I am focusing on doing just that.

[Ned Kuruc, Conservative, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

Thank you.

In your opinion, is a mixed fleet feasible? If we altered from the F-35 and went in another direction, is that feasible? What kinds of cost overruns would there be?

Maybe Ms. Beck could also jump in on the cost side.

[LGen Jamie Speiser-Blanchet]

In terms of mixed fleet, with the transition to the F-35 with the F-18, we in fact will be operating a mixed fleet for a certain amount of time as we draw down the number of F-18s and increase the number of F-35s.

That will be a very intricate and very deliberate endeavour, given the shortages we have mentioned. We will be monitoring that very closely to ensure we are providing our personnel with the right training and exposure, so that we're able to maintain our operational commitments throughout that, which is also involving a very important discussion with NORAD, North American air defence, as our key partner in continental defence. We are more than interoperable with the United States for NORAD, to protect the continent, and that is something we aim to maintain throughout this transition.

In terms of a mixed fleet, we see very positive opportunities looking towards the future as we get beyond fifth-gen and towards sixth-generation aircraft, which are in development. They're in early development now with allies and partners. This is an area that we are looking into and working on with our research and development partners to learn more about.

[Ned Kuruc, Conservative, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

Thank you very much.

I guess where I was going is that my concern would be that I would like to see us fulfill the F-35 contract. I wouldn't like us to go backwards and obtain fourth-generation fighters.

It's very interesting that you put forth that there are sixth-generation fighters being developed. That's exciting.

I would like to see us fulfill that contract, given the geopolitical status of where the world is today and where we're going. Is there any talk of going backwards and possibly procuring fourth-gen fighters, or no?

[Stefanie Beck]

What we have as direction is to continue with the contract, with the MOU and with the arrangements we have in place, until we hear otherwise. We are full steam ahead: full steam ahead and focused on making sure we have the infrastructure, the pilots and the training in place for the arrival of those F-35s.

[Ned Kuruc, Conservative, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

That's very good. Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Thank you.

That is your time, Mr. Kuruc. You were a little over.

Up next is Mr. Housefather for five minutes, please.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Thank you very much.

I heard Mr. Kuruc's questions, Ms. Folkes, and when we went to tender for or did the multiple processes of bidding for the contract that was eventually awarded for the F-35s, nobody was talking about generation-four fighters, right? We were looking at generation-five fighters even in that context, whether it was the Saabs or the F-35s.

[Paula Folkes]

Canada implemented an open and transparent competitive process that included high-level mandatory requirements. We were open to any allied fighter aircraft that was in production and that could meet those requirements. We established a list of qualified suppliers that included both fourth-gen and fifth-gen fighter aircraft. In that process, our goal was to make sure all of the qualified bidders could see a competitive path forward and would be able to demonstrate their strengths.

To realize that, Public Services and Procurement Canada oversaw the evaluation of the bids. As is part of our role as a contracting authority to preserve the integrity of the procurement process, we employ the services of a fairness monitor. We contracted a third party reviewer to examine our procurement approach and all key documents. We also employed red teaming, which brought together experts from across all three core departments to neutrally and objectively assess and challenge the rigour of the evaluation process. The evaluation process of course looked at costs, capability and economic benefits. In that process, the F-35 was the preferred bidder across all of those evaluation demands.

Thank you.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Let me ask a different question.

Ms. Hogan, when you looked at the costs and the higher cost than anticipated on the F-35s, did you also ever look at Finland, for example, which contracted for the F-35s in 2021? I think they were the most recent partner and bought them right before us in 2023. Did you look to see if they had similar issues in terms of the earlier anticipated costs? I think theirs was $9.4 million.

[Karen Hogan]

It's very difficult to do a comparison like that.

Coming out of the joint strike fighter program office, everyone is getting the same cost for the aircraft. Then, where you'll have differences is in infrastructure upgrades, training and so on. I can only assume that every country would pay a similar price, but it's very difficult for us to gain access to that information, and we did not do a comparison country to country.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

We didn't compare with other countries to see if they had similar issues in terms of initial projections versus costs after a couple of years.

[Karen Hogan]

We didn't look into that. What I can tell you is that when National Defence prepared their estimate, it was based on information that was two years old, and there was more up-to-date information, so I don't know what other countries would have done, but Canada could have used the more updated cost for the aircraft.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Thanks.

Lieutenant-General, congratulations on your nomination. I have a couple of questions for National Defence.

First of all, on the pilots, you mentioned, obviously, that a big challenge is making sure we have pilots, beyond technicians and other people to operate.... You mentioned bringing people back who had retired from the armed forces. Would that be a temporary solution, because we eventually have the mandatory retirement age that they would reach, or is that a more permanent solution because they retired at such a young age that they would still be able to fly for another dozen years?

[LGen Jamie Speiser-Blanchet]

We welcome anyone who is up to the compulsory retirement age of 55, or even it can extend to 60 years of age. We are always looking for volunteers to the force. Many of them are younger, and as long as they are still fit to fly and meet all of the requirements, then they are able to do so until those age limits apply.

We are also working on increasing recruiting and the throughput through our training systems, which includes in fact a full modernization of our training aircraft fleets for all air crew—all of those fleets, in fact. We're replacing five fleets, and four of the five are from European partners. Many are being manufactured in Canada, so we're definitely working across multiple areas to be able to increase the number of pilots we have in the air force overall, but then specifically for the fighter fleet.