Public Safety Committee on Sept. 28th, 2006

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

Please answer my question. Did you call for an inquiry or not?

[Stockwell Day, Conservative, Okanagan—Coquihalla, BC]

I'm answering the question in the context in which you gave it. I think it's really important to note that this is partly addressed in terms of comments people made at the period of time. For instance, there's an interesting one here--

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

Minister, I only have five minutes. I really would appreciate your cooperation. Did you not call for an inquiry on why the government was defending a man who had terrorist links?

[Stockwell Day, Conservative, Okanagan—Coquihalla, BC]

No. I called for an inquiry to ask why the government was saying one thing at one time, another thing at another time, and not answering the fair questions that Mr. Arar had. I said those are fair questions.

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

Didn't Ms. Ablonczy say it took the U.S. to find this person who had links to al-Qaeda and that the Liberal Party didn't do anything about it?

[Stockwell Day, Conservative, Okanagan—Coquihalla, BC]

Mr. Chairman, we could do “he said, she said” all day long.

If you'd allow me to answer, my friend, I'm trying to do that. It says here that Minister Graham's statements were inaccurate. Mr. Graham in a scrum, related to the very question you raise.... There were Human Rights Commission allegations that Mr. Arar had been tortured. Mr. Graham replied that he had spoken to officials in his department, that Mr. Arar had been interviewed independently by consul officials that day, and that as far as Mr. Graham was concerned he was in good condition. He rejected all allegations of torture.

I really don't think we're going to gain a lot of ground by dragging these types of things forward. The main thing is, Justice O'Connor has come out with 23 recommendations, and the new government of Canada has said let's get going on this so that this type of injustice never again befalls a Canadian.

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

Thank you. Obviously you're not going to answer my question. The record is very clear, so we all know. I wanted to give you an opportunity to express your personal apology for jumping to conclusions at the time.

[Stockwell Day, Conservative, Okanagan—Coquihalla, BC]

I'll respond to that by saying I stood with other members on that particular question of apology in the House of Commons. It was a wonderful non-partisan vote.

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

You obviously have acknowledged how serious these findings and recommendations are. You have demonstrated your commitment to getting those recommendations implemented. Do you not think that some individuals who are responsible should be held accountable? If so, when will we do that?

[Stockwell Day, Conservative, Okanagan—Coquihalla, BC]

I agree there needs to be thorough research on the question of accountability. Again, Justice O'Connor didn't make specific recommendations on that, but he did say that people who have the ability to look into these matters should do so, and we are doing that. I've certainly given instructions to my officials and to others to see if there are some areas that need to be followed through on that. That's a good point you raise, and I understand the RCMP is doing the same.

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

Justice O'Connor made it very clear that members of the RCMP made egregious mistakes. Now the question is this, and I know you're looking into it. Do you agree that when we get to the bottom of it some people should be held accountable with disciplinary action and perhaps termination?

[Stockwell Day, Conservative, Okanagan—Coquihalla, BC]

Accountability is key. That's why these types of questions are being pursued throughout various agencies, keeping in mind that Justice O'Connor also said that in no way did any Canadian officials acquiesce in the removal from the United States to Syria. He does say the information that was provided to the Americans may well have had an impact on that, and Justice O'Connor also says they did not act in bad faith.

I don't know what you do, sir, in a situation if you find an employee who has made a mistake, but it hasn't been in bad faith. I don't know if it's termination. I think you weigh it out on each situation, and we're doing that. We're looking at what happened under the previous government, with previous government officials. We are looking at that. We want to be careful to make sure in all aspects that this type of injustice never happens again.

[The Chair, Conservative, Garry Breitkreuz]

Thank you.

We're going to move on to the next questioner.

Ms. Bonsant.

[France Bonsant, Bloc, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Minister.

Since this morning, everybody is submitting apologies. I would like to know if you intend to ask the RCMP authorities to identify the person responsible for the bad management of that Force. Are you ready to ask the RCMP to identify someone who will accept the responsibility of that situation?

[Stockwell Day, Conservative, Okanagan—Coquihalla, BC]

I heard most of Mr. Zaccardelli's comments. He said that he would accept to be held responsible concerning the report and the mistakes made by his agency.

[France Bonsant, Bloc, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

Do you still have confidence in Mr. Zaccardelli?

[Stockwell Day, Conservative, Okanagan—Coquihalla, BC]

I also heard him apologizing. Of course, we're going to pursue this matter.

[France Bonsant, Bloc, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

Do you still trust the Commissioner?

[Stockwell Day, Conservative, Okanagan—Coquihalla, BC]

Yes, of course. And I said so.

[France Bonsant, Bloc, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

What happened before belongs to the past. You are now assuming that responsibility. What does the Conservative Government intend to do so that it won't happen again?

[Stockwell Day, Conservative, Okanagan—Coquihalla, BC]

The Prime Minister said that we have accepted each of the 23 recommendations made by Justice O'Connor. We want to implement every one of them so that that kind of situation will never occur again. We are committed to do it.

[France Bonsant, Bloc, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

You said that you had written a letter to Mr. Chertoff concerning American security. Have you received an answer? As Canada is sharing information with other countries, will you ask the United States to share information with our country?

[Stockwell Day, Conservative, Okanagan—Coquihalla, BC]

Certainly. I said so in my letter to Mr. Chertoff. Each country is sovereign and can make its own decisions, but I expressed the hope that he would follow our lead as we have eliminated all our look-outs for Mr. Arar and his family.

[France Bonsant, Bloc, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

When the Americans decided to send Mr. Arar to Syria, it was known that that country was using torture to force people to speak. Why did the Americans not advise our minister? Why didn't they take into account the fact that they were ruining a life? A year in the life of Mr. Arar and his family has been ruined.

I am a mother and if my husband had been caught in that area, I would have been very worried. What should the U.S. Government have done to inform Canada that it had made a mistake? Was it misplaced vanity?

[Stockwell Day, Conservative, Okanagan—Coquihalla, BC]

I agree with you. I cannot imagine such an ordeal happening to one of my sons, to a member of my family or anyone else. It is terrible. It was difficult for Justice O'Connor to determine what was the reason because the Americans and the Syrians have refused to appear before him.