Public Safety Committee on Oct. 5th, 2006

[Michael Baker]

As you have said, over the $1 per capita, of the next $2 per capita, the government share is 50%. The next $2 after that per capita--

[Serge Ménard, Bloc, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

How much is it?

[Michael Baker]

It's 50%.

[Serge Ménard, Bloc, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

It's 50%?

[Michael Baker]

Yes, 50%. After that, it's 75%, and then the remainder is 90%.

This act will continue the disaster financial assistance. It doesn't change that, so that program would still be in place.

[Serge Ménard, Bloc, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

Some issues have been raised when major disasters have occurred in the last few years. It was not clear what damages were covered by those agreements, particularly in the case of public works which in some provinces are privately owned, and publicly owned in other provinces. Could you tell me more on that subject?

Let us look at hydro services for example. In some provinces, part of the grid is private while another part is public. In many provinces, the whole grid is public.

In such cases, does the federal cover damages caused by a natural disaster?

[Michael Baker]

I don't have the exact numbers with me, but the program itself is to restore public works to their pre-disaster condition and replace basic and essential personal property of individuals, small businesses, and farmsteads. The municipality would identify what they're seeking assistance for to the province. The province then would audit that, look at it, and then forward it to the federal government for our assistance.

[Serge Ménard, Bloc, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

My question was not clear enough. I do not want to know if you have verified the eligibility of the claims. I want to know if you cover public works that are destroyed, for instance power lines in some provinces, or if you only cover private assets that are the property of individuals or corporations.

[Michael Baker]

I'll ask Dave Neville, who is the director of my program, to give you the detail on that.

[David Neville, Director, Disaster Financial Assistance and Preparedness Programs, Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness Canada (PSEPC)]

Good morning, Mr. Chair. My name is Dave Neville, and I'm director of disaster financial assistance and preparedness programs at PSEPC.

In response to the question, I think one thing that's important to keep in mind is that following a disaster, it's the province that designs and delivers its assistance program to those affected by disaster, and the DFAA reimburses the province for eligible costs after the fact. The province is free to set its eligibility criteria as it sees fit. The DFAA in no way restricts the province from providing assistance.

In terms of eligible costs, eligible costs are clearly outlined in a manual of guidelines that we provide. When it comes to what is eligible and what is not, some of the main ins and outs of the DFAA are that anything that is insurable is not eligible under the federal program; large businesses or crown corporations--and this gets to the issue of electrical providers in certain provinces--are not eligible. Where assistance is provided in whole or part by another federal program, those costs would not be eligible under the DFAA.

So the DFAA's guidelines are clearly there, and once the provincial government has completed making its payments, we then assess those expenditures in accordance with our guidelines and reimburse the province after the fact.

[Serge Ménard, Bloc, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

I want to make sure that I understand your answer. Let us look at the hydro-electric grid in Quebec, for instance, which is entirely owned by a public corporation: Hydro-Québec. In regard to wind power, the Government wants to call on the private sector. It wants a public-private partnership.

In that case, you would not cover Hydro-Québec for the losses in its hydro-electric grid, but you might cover the losses of wind tower owners, is that right?

[The Chair, Conservative, Garry Breitkreuz]

Thank you, Mr. Ménard. Those are very good questions, but we'll have to continue in the next round.

You may answer.

[David Neville]

In the case of the Hydro-Québec rated costs, under the DFAA, costs incurred or damage incurred by Hydro-Québec would not be eligible to be covered by assistance, but any assistance provided by the province for private damage would have to be assessed, again, making sure that the company meets the definition of small business, because DFAA is very restricted in terms of the types of business it will provide assistance to. Usually, it's an owner-operated type business, which is clearly defined in the guidelines.

We would have to see, when you talk about private industry, whether or not that entity meets the definition of eligible businesses under the DFAA. Again, that's not to say the province cannot provide assistance to that business.

[The Chair, Conservative, Garry Breitkreuz]

Thank you. If you need more clarification, maybe you can get that on the next round.

Mr. Comartin, go ahead, please.

[Joe Comartin, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for being here.

I was going to take the same approach the chair recommended. Is this legislation changing the structure that we have now in any way?

[James Deacon]

I'll perhaps ask Ms. Wong to speak to that in just a moment, but generally speaking, it's confirming existing practices. Having said that, there are some important additions. It reflects the need for a solid framework to proceed, a framework that we don't have legislatively, in particular with respect to the lead role of the minister and some of the other related arrangements and responsibilities.

Ms. Wong can provide, perhaps--

[Joe Comartin, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Just before you do, do you have an organization chart as it exists now?

[James Deacon]

Of our branch?

[Joe Comartin, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Yes.

[James Deacon]

Yes, we do.

[Joe Comartin, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Could you provide that to the clerk of the committee?

[James Deacon]

I certainly could.

[Joe Comartin, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Just to follow up on that, do you have an executive summary of the program you administer?

[James Deacon]

We could certainly put some material together to assist the committee, Mr. Chair, if it would be of assistance.

[The Chair, Conservative, Garry Breitkreuz]

That would be appreciated.