Public Safety Committee on Dec. 5th, 2006

[Commr Giuliano Zaccardelli]

I can understand that, sir.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

I have a very brief question. I know what the answer is going to be, but I want to get it on the record anyway.

Ms. McLellan said that perhaps it goes to something more important in terms of the culture of that organization. Is there a problem with the culture of the RCMP, for which I have the utmost respect?

[Commr Giuliano Zaccardelli]

I don't believe there is any problem at all with the culture.

Again, sir, I go back to what Justice O'Connor says. He says this team was a team of highly experienced investigators, extremely dedicated to doing their work. They were put into a situation in a context that was literally unknown, unprecedented. By the way, this is the same situation that has been faced by all democratic countries around the world. He says they weren't the best trained in this area, although they had other expertise, but he understands the situation, and therefore he balances the gravity of the mistake. He recommends how we can improve, and that's what we put into place. These are highly skilled, dedicated members who gave everything they could for this investigation. They did make some mistakes, and Justice O'Connor recognizes that. As the commissioner, I have to take that into consideration when I decide what to do with those members relative to those mistakes.

I also am very much aware of the culture of the organization and what has to be done to move this ahead. That's why, as I said, I have taken the recommendations and accepted them wholly. We have put most of those into place. We have gone around the world to learn best practices and learn from each other. That is what we've done, and I'm committed to continuing to do that.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

I agree with your assessment of your members.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Garry Breitkreuz]

We have gone through our entire rotation. I just have a question for the committee. Do all the political parties still have another question, a wrap-up question? The Bloc do, the NDP do. We're going to have maybe a two-minute round, then, in order to—

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

We've always had five-minute rounds, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Garry Breitkreuz]

Well, we just have five minutes. Do we want to end it now?

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

No, Mr. Chair. I have a question. I am requesting my five minutes, please, in accordance with how we always do—

[The Chair, Conservative, Garry Breitkreuz]

So you would deny the other political parties their time.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

This is how we've always done it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Garry Breitkreuz]

No. If we get close to the end, we all share the time. I'm sorry.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

They're saying they're accepting that I get five minutes.

[The Chair, Conservative, Garry Breitkreuz]

All right, go ahead.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to start by saying that it was made clear through testimony today that in fact there was political interference. In fact, what you have stated to us is that you had to get permission from the minister about what you could testify about, which is again yet another major contradiction to what came before.

What I want to ask are a couple of questions—

[The Chair, Conservative, Garry Breitkreuz]

There's a point of order.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

I'm moving on. I've made my point on that. I have a couple of questions, if I could.

[The Chair, Conservative, Garry Breitkreuz]

Yes, but we have a point of order, so we'll just hold off for a second here.

Go ahead.

[Dave MacKenzie, Conservative, Oxford, ON]

First off, I think you've interpreted something totally different from what was said.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

This is a point of debate, not a point of order, Mr. Chair.

[Dave MacKenzie, Conservative, Oxford, ON]

But you've made a point that there was political interference. I don't think we ever heard that story.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

I'm allowed an opinion. This is a debate. This is not a point of order. What's your point of order?

[Dave MacKenzie, Conservative, Oxford, ON]

You're trying to put something on the record that wasn't said.

[The Chair, Conservative, Garry Breitkreuz]

Mr. Holland, go ahead.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

If I could, in the period from September 18 going forward, can you tell me if you had any consultant's advice on how you should handle this matter when dealing with the media or dealing with this committee, yes or no?

[Commr Giuliano Zaccardelli]

Mr. Chair, I would like to come back to the first point raised by Mr. Holland.