Public Safety Committee on June 7th, 2006

[The Chair, Conservative, Garry Breitkreuz]

This is the seventh meeting of the Standing Committee on Public Safety and National Security. Pursuant to Standing Order 84(1), the main estimates for 2006-07, including votes 1, 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, 35, 40, 45, 50, 55, 60, 65, 70, 75, and 80 under public safety and emergency preparedness, were referred to this committee on April 25.

We welcome the Honourable Stockwell Day to the committee.

Mr. Day, I presume you will have some kind of initial presentation, and before you begin, maybe I would let you introduce the witnesses who are with you, as well.

The usual procedure at this committee is that after all the witnesses have finished, we will then go to questions from the official opposition for seven minutes.

[Stockwell Day, Conservative, Minister of Public Safety]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you, colleagues, members of the committee.

I am pleased to be here today to discuss with you the expenditure plan of the Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness for 2006-2007.

I'm pleased to be with you here today to go over public safety portfolio spending plans for the year 2006-07.

Right off the bat, I'll introduce the officials who are accompanying me today.

I'm pleased to introduce to you, many for the first time, the Deputy Minister Suzanne Hurtubise; Mr. Jim Judd, who is the head of our Canadian Security Intelligence Service, CSIS; Mr. Alain Jolicoeur, who heads up the Canada Border Services Agency; Commissioner Zaccardelli, who is in charge of the RCMP; Mr. Keith Coulter, who heads up Correctional Service Canada; and Mr. Mario Dion, who is now head of the National Parole Board. Each of those agencies falls under the umbrella of public safety.

I've said before, and I'll say many more times, I have always believed the prime responsibility of any government is the safety and security of its citizens. It's to that goal that these agency heads and almost 55,000 employees are dedicated.

The portfolio budget is $6 billion, when you take into account all these various expenses. It covers everything from providing leadership to providing coordination in terms of the agencies themselves, as well as coordination of emergency services at the federal level. Of course, the portfolio delivers programs and services in all areas related to national security, emergency management, policing, law enforcement and border security, the corrections system, and crime prevention. Integrating these closely related roles and responsibilities helps to maximize not only our emergency preparedness throughout the country to natural disasters and security emergencies, but also the very issues of safety and security upon which our citizens rely.

Public safety is a co-responsibility of government, and as recent events have shown us, terrorism is a problem to address here in our own country and in fact around the world.

Accountability is also a priority. That's why, indeed, we're looking at the expenditures that are identified in these estimates to be implemented, and I look to you for your input, your questions, and your guidance on those.

As you're aware, the government is making additional changes that will not be reflected in these particular estimates, but will be reflected in the further supplementary estimates.

Budget 2006 provides a clear indication of where the government intends to go on the whole issue in the areas of public safety and security.

Since taking over this portfolio, I have met with some of the men and women working in the area of public safety. I have visited correctional institutions, RCMP detachments and land border crossings. I have been to the Government Operations Centre, participated in a briefing session given by CSIS officials, and attended a demonstration of Canada's urban search and rescue capacity in Calgary.

I've had the opportunity to visit many of our various facilities related to these portfolio items and these agencies. I've visited many corrections facilities, as well as RCMP posts and key operational elements of the RCMP, from the DNA centre to our National Child Exploitation Coordination Centre, to various facilities across the country. I've spent a fair bit of time at our border entries--land, air, and sea. I've been briefed by CSIS officials, and in fact officials from all agencies, in terms of our state of preparedness both for emergencies and in dealing with the security issues that face me on a daily basis.

I'm not the only one in government, indeed, who has visited these facilities. I make those invitations open to any of you, of course. My parliamentary secretary, Mr. Dave MacKenzie, has been instrumental in assisting and advising me and also in taking a very significant role in this whole area of public safety and security.

I can say that, without exception, what I have found when I have spent time at any of these particular agencies out on the front lines is dedicated, hard-working people who believe strongly in what they're doing. They see this as important and necessary work. I'm proud to be associated with the some 55,000 employees across the country who are committed in their area of expertise to our safety and to our security.

We've taken on a number of initiatives, which I can address during the question time. I'd like to touch for a few moments on the main estimates and the highlights. This is the projected spending for the department and the portfolio agencies for 2006-07.

In terms of the department itself--this isn't the broad portfolio, but just the department itself--with some 850 full-time equivalents in the 2006-07 budget of $458 million, that's increase of 6.3%

There has also been an increase of $22.9 million for the renewal of the expanded national crime prevention strategy. That brings their total to $47.4 million.

Funding for the first nations policing program would increase by $6.3 million.

For the Canada Border Services Agency, with some 12,348 full-time equivalents in the 2006-07 budget, that will be approximately $1.3 billion. That's a 26.6% increase, reflecting our commitment to the integrity of our borders, a $271.8 million increase in funding for CBSA to improve border security by strengthening the presence at the border, to respond to the increased staff requirements resulting from the redevelopment of Pearson International Airport, and to address employee health and safety concerns and to build a solid foundation for the new agency.

In terms of the Canadian Security Intelligence Service, CSIS, there are some 2,449 full-time equivalents for the 2006-07 budget of $346.1 million. That's an 18.5% increase, again reflecting our concern related to the capacity and the strength of the Canadian Security Intelligence Service, $54 million of which will help CSIS to keep pace with constantly evolving technology--and as you can imagine, in the area of information gathering this is very important; as well as to enhance the service's ability to collect national security intelligence abroad; and to operate the Integrated Threat Assessment Centre.

For the RCMP, there are some 25,263 full-time equivalents. Obviously that's not all officers on the front lines; it also includes the administrative support. The 2006-07 budget of $2 billion is an increase of 11.5%, again reflecting the government's commitment to increased security on our streets, in our cities and our towns. The funds are primarily for contract policing services and the real-time identification project.

Correctional Service Canada has some 14,829 full-time equivalent employees. For the 2006-07 budget, that's $1.7 billion. That reflects an increase of 7%, $27.5 million of which is going to be for capital projects that have been delayed from previous years, and $15.7 million for two projects under the strengthening community safety and the effective corrections initiatives.

The National Parole Board has 465 full-time equivalents, and $43.1 million is allotted to them in the 2006-07 budget. That's an increase of 35.5%, $11.3 million of which is going to address some of the chronic underfunding and a growing workload, including $1.5 million for victims of crime, and $600,000 of that was provided for workload increases.

The Canada Firearms Centre has been the responsibility of this portfolio. As you know, the government has made a promise to Canadians to eliminate the long gun registry and to reinvest those savings into crime prevention, more officers on the street, programs that will assist youth, and other areas.

I also want to remind members that we were talking about bringing in the amnesty, which we've actually done. The amnesty is in place for unrestricted long guns. I know there's been a concern related to the files that are available to police officers when they are on the front lines. The requirement is still in place and will remain in place. Anyone who wants to possess or purchase a firearm must have a firearm licence of one of two sorts. You still must have a licence. That will still be a fact of life. An officer, who is pulling up to a domicile and checking on the possibility of firearms, will know if the persons resident there in fact have firearm licences. We are also maintaining the safe storage provisions and the safety course requirement. The handgun registry stays in place, as does the registry for prohibitive and restrictive weapons.

The annual operating budget for the program has been reduced by $10 million, and of course, as you know, responsibility for it is being transferred to the RCMP.

I will now talk about the estimates.

Security is obviously one of the government's priorities. We have announced spending of $1.4 billion over two years to protect families and communities in Canada, provide border security and improve our preparation time to deal with threats to public health.

There is $1.4 billion over two years going towards protecting Canadian families and communities, securing our borders, increasing our ability to be prepared for public health threats and other emergencies; a $161 million increase over the next two years for our commitment to hiring 1,000 RCMP officers, and $37 million for the RCMP to expand its national training academy in Regina; $101 million over the next two years to begin arming and training our border officers and to reduce instances where border officers are working alone; $303 million will be invested over two years to improve the flow of low-risk traffic of goods and people and, at the same time, targeting high-risk travellers and goods. Secure borders are a goal we will achieve, but we also want to make sure that good access for low-risk travellers and low-risk goods is also achieved. If you have security but you don't have prosperity with it, then you have failed in your goal. We plan to achieve both of those goals. There is $95 million over two years to bolster security for rail and urban transit; Transport Canada will take the lead on those.

There is $20 million for crime prevention activities that target youth at risk by providing them with positive alternatives to violence, drugs, and gangs. Victims of crime will be supported by an additional investment of $26 million. There will be $19 million per year to improve Canada's capacity to manage emergencies of all kinds; $5 million a year to enhance the national exercise and training program; and $1 million per year to fund vulnerability assessments for critical infrastructure.

It is vital that we continue to strengthen Canada's capacity in the areas of law enforcement, public safety, border security and emergency management in order to deal with all the security threats facing Canadians.

Mr. Chairman, it's vital that we continue to strengthen Canada's law enforcement public safety border security and emergency management capacities to deal with any and all threats to the safety and security of Canadians.

To that end, I'm respectfully asking the committee to lend its support to this spending plan. I look forward to working with you on public safety priorities, including, by the way, your consideration of the proposed emergency management act and the review of the Anti-terrorism Act.

As we look to you for questions and advice, I just want to again underline that we are served by some 55,000 employees who see safety and security provisions as a calling. They go to work every night and every day committed to the safety and security of our country.That can give us great assurance. I also feel assured by the upcoming questions and advice that I'll receive from the members on this committee.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Garry Breitkreuz]

Thank you very much, Mr. Minister.

I believe we're ready to move to questions.

Ms. Kadis, you have the first question.

[Susan Kadis, Liberal, Thornhill, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and welcome, Minister, and everyone, today.

We heard recently in the news, I think today, about the intelligence oversight committee, something very much along the lines of that proposed by the previous Liberal government, a proposal for which had been tabled prior to the government's ending. I'd just like to know a little bit more about this in terms of your timelines. I know we were considering having it modelled after the British system as opposed to the U.S. system. I'd like to have a little more detail, a little more elaboration, on timelines and direction.

[Stockwell Day, Conservative, Okanagan—Coquihalla, BC]

An oversight committee is clearly something we want. The work that was done by parliamentarians in the last Parliament was very helpful. A lot of ground was covered. I've had some discussions with a number of individuals, some of whom were actually on that committee previously, with a variety of party affiliations.

In terms of timelines, at this point we're looking towards the fall. I don't know that we can do what we'd like to do in the remainder of this session. I was very impressed with the high degree of collegiality of members who were previously working on this, from all parties. I'm convinced that we can come up with something that's satisfactory.

Regarding your question on the British approach vis-à-vis the American, as a matter of fact the committee looked at, and we will continue to look at, a number of different models. The key factor is that members of Parliament from all parties would be able to look at certain security and intelligence information--they would be sworn to secrecy, of course, under the usual provisions of that line of work--to build confidence among all parliamentarians and among Canadians that the necessary steps are being taken to provide security, with a balanced approach of safety and security being achieved, but also carefully observing privacy rights, human rights, and individual freedoms. I look forward to moving forward on that approximate timeline.

[Susan Kadis, Liberal, Thornhill, ON]

Do I have more time, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Conservative, Garry Breitkreuz]

Yes, you do.

[Susan Kadis, Liberal, Thornhill, ON]

Okay, briefly then, you referred to the arming of the border security officers. Can you also flesh out some more information on the timelines for that as well, and on how and where the new initiative will be implemented?

[Stockwell Day, Conservative, Okanagan—Coquihalla, BC]

Thank you.

We made a commitment to have safe and secure borders. One of the things that were causing Canadians some alarm was the fact that when dangerous situations developed at the border, when they had information that possibly armed individuals were approaching a border from the United States, when maybe individuals were fleeing a crime, or maybe even planning a crime, our border officers felt they were not properly equipped. Many times that would result in their leaving their posts and other armed presence having to be called in. That, of course, is a safety and security issue, but it's also a prosperity issue, because once a border closes, especially if it's at a major border point, the lineups become considerable.

I'm going to ask Mr. Alain Jolicoeur if he would like to comment, if that's all right with the honourable member, in terms of where he sees this first emerging as the training advances, and the key spots at which you will first observe this.

[Alain Jolicoeur, President, Canada Border Services Agency]

Thank you.

We're planning to arm approximately 5,000 of our officers. They'll be mainly along the land border, but also in marine ports. This will also include some of our officers who have to conduct investigations inland. The plan to deploy those armed officers, as the minister said, will start at the border crossings that are most important to us, where the volume of traffic is the highest. Before we can do that, we are now working with our people through a task force involving the union, developing all of the policies and the training that are required for that. The development of the contents of the training package is fairly advanced, but those first steps need to be carried out before we deploy people. We also have a project to procure some of that training for the first phase through existing schools, and then will have training inside our own facility in Rigaud, Quebec.

We'll see the first group of 150 armed officers being deployed in those more important crossings probably in the fall of 2007. This plan needs to be refined, and we're working on doing that at the moment. We're moving toward a complete deployment of about 5,000 people in the following years.

[The Chair, Conservative, Garry Breitkreuz]

Could we have Monsieur Ménard or Ms. Freeman, please?

Monsieur Ménard, go ahead, please.

[Serge Ménard, Bloc, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Minister, the budget for the Royal Canadian Mounted Police is being increased. How many new positions will result from this increase? It appears that the additional spending will amount to $214,371,000.

[Stockwell Day, Conservative, Okanagan—Coquihalla, BC]

Our promise is to add 1,000 officers over the next four or five years. The estimates contain $161 million for that purpose.

I would like to ask Commissioner Zaccardelli to tell us which regions and levels these officers will be assigned to.

[Commr Giuliano Zaccardelli, Commissioner, Royal Canadian Mounted Police]

Thank you, Minister.

Mr. Chairman, the funding that has been allocated will enable us to hire 1,000 police officers at the federal level. We need to make a clear distinction between contracts with the provinces and territories and the work that we do at the federal level. We will begin this deployment next year.

Right now, we are in the process of determining where we will deploy all these resources. The choice will be determined by the information that we collect. We want to make sure as well that the deployment is focused on regions where the most threatening organizations are active, particularly at the federal level, which means that we will be using most of these resources to fight organized crime.

Organized crime in Canada affects the whole country, but there are major organizations in Ontario, Quebec, British Columbia and the other provinces. According to our information right now, most of the deployment will take place in Quebec, Ontario and British Columbia. However, there will be some deployment in other regions, in the west and the east as well.

No final decision has been made regarding how the new staff will be distributed.

[Serge Ménard, Bloc, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

My question was simpler than that. In fact, I wanted to know how many positions you could get with this increase. But I understand from your answer that you will begin next year to hire the 1,000 officers that had been promised.

A number of people have pointed out that you are not even able to fill the positions when police officers leave. Do you really believe that you will be able to fill the vacant positions and hire 1,000 new police officers?

[Commr Giuliano Zaccardelli]

Mr. Chairman, I can assure you that there are enough spaces at Depot Division to train 1,600 cadets this year. So we will be able to fill all the vacant positions and increase our staff, using the budget that has been allocated to us.

[Serge Ménard, Bloc, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

Mr. Jolicoeur, I believe that you will be hiring 500 armed customs officers.

[Alain Jolicoeur]

If I may correct you, there will be 5,000 armed officers, but most of them will be employees who are already on staff.

[Serge Ménard, Bloc, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

Can you guarantee that the training that will be provided to them will be equivalent to what is given to Canadian police officers, not only with respect to the handling of firearms, but also the progressive use of force and alternatives to using lethal weapons?

[Alain Jolicoeur]

Thank you for your question. This is a major concern for our organization as well. At the beginning, when we looked into the issue, we naively thought that a short, easy training session of about one week would be enough. But we worked with the Quebec Police Institute in Nicolet and the training centre for departmental employees who use firearms, the DHS in the United States. We acquired the expertise we needed to set up a course. The course will contain the components found in courses for police officers. We went over the structure with the RCMP to be sure that nothing was missing. The course will last three weeks. It will include these components as well as others on ethics, legal aspects and the consequences of using firearms.

[Serge Ménard, Bloc, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

Do you really think that in three weeks—

[The Chair, Conservative, Garry Breitkreuz]

Monsieur Ménard, a brief question.

[Serge Ménard, Bloc, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

I will go directly to something else.

Minister, I will not discuss whether or not the amnesty program is justified, but I would like to talk about the cost, since we are considering your estimates. I have heard estimates that your reimbursement costs might be around $120 million over five years. What is your own assessment of how much it will cost to reimburse registration fees that have already been paid?

[Stockwell Day, Conservative, Okanagan—Coquihalla, BC]

According to my information, just for those who have renewed their permit, the cost would be about $19 million.

[Serge Ménard, Bloc, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

What about the others?