Evidence of meeting #38 for Public Safety and National Security in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was know.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:15 p.m.
National Security Advisor to the Prime Minister and Associate Secretary to the Cabinet, Privy Council Office
Yes, and when it was in the papers, I noticed it.
4:15 p.m.
National Security Advisor to the Prime Minister and Associate Secretary to the Cabinet, Privy Council Office
I just don't know the timing of the print. It's whenever it was in the papers.
4:15 p.m.
Bloc
Serge Ménard Bloc Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC
I understand that you rely only on facts and that you do not take into account speculation, but it does happen that worrisome speculation is later confirmed, would you agree?
When the newspapers say that Ms. Couillard was involved with members of the Hells Angels, one of whom was assassinated and the other flipped, is there not reason to believe that the minister's relationship might be worrisome security-wise? Consequently, would it not be appropriate to speak to the RCMP?
4:15 p.m.
National Security Advisor to the Prime Minister and Associate Secretary to the Cabinet, Privy Council Office
The first point I will reiterate, because I'm always leery about insinuations being made when I don't know the facts. I don't know the facts of Madame Couillard's background. I only know what I read in the paper.
Secondly, when I did read it, as you recall, the second round of checks had just been done—
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
Marlene Jennings Liberal Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC
On a point of order, I believe Mrs. Bloodworth would like to make a correction. She just made the statement that she doesn't know the facts, that she only knows what she reads in the paper. But she just testified that she was aware of the testimony of officer Souccar before this committee, on the record officially, that Madame Couillard was a person known to the RCMP.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Garry Breitkreuz
You'll have an opportunity later. That's not a point of order.
Go ahead, Monsieur Ménard.
4:15 p.m.
National Security Advisor to the Prime Minister and Associate Secretary to the Cabinet, Privy Council Office
That's certainly correct. I have read Assistant Commissioner Souccar's testimony and, I guess, I know what he said in that testimony.
4:15 p.m.
National Security Advisor to the Prime Minister and Associate Secretary to the Cabinet, Privy Council Office
I'm sorry, I have forgotten the question.
4:15 p.m.
Bloc
Serge Ménard Bloc Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC
Ms. Bloodworth, based upon the way in which you lay out the problem, you seem to me to be quite rigid, to simply follow procedure and to not have the necessary flexibility to adapt to a very unusual situation involving security risks. I am nevertheless convinced that you have this ability. You even have the duty to adapt to exceptional circumstances.
You therefore read in the papers that the person who is sharing the minister's private life had important links with organized crime, with dangerous people.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
4:15 p.m.
Bloc
Serge Ménard Bloc Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC
You yourself recognized that this could lead to security breaches. At that time, even though it was perhaps only speculation on the part of the media, were you not tempted to ask the RCMP to verify the facts so as to determine if it was true that Ms. Couillard had had such connections?
4:20 p.m.
National Security Advisor to the Prime Minister and Associate Secretary to the Cabinet, Privy Council Office
I do remember the second point I was going to make, which was, as you recall, that the second round of checks, which included something from the RCMP as well as CSIS and the other checks, had just been completed when that came out. They were completed in early to mid-April. So I had just recently heard from the RCMP.
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
Rick Norlock Conservative Northumberland—Quinte West, ON
Thank you.
Thank you for coming today, witnesses.
This question will, unfortunately, again be for Ms. Bloodworth.
Did you receive or have you received from any political party, the official opposition or any opposition party, a call, or did they write you or let you or anyone at PCO know in any way that they personally had some serious national security concerns regarding the relationship that the Minister of Foreign Affairs had with Ms. Couillard?
4:20 p.m.
National Security Advisor to the Prime Minister and Associate Secretary to the Cabinet, Privy Council Office
No, I didn't.
4:20 p.m.
Assistant Secretary to the Cabinet, Security and Intelligence, Privy Council Office
No.
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
Rick Norlock Conservative Northumberland—Quinte West, ON
Thank you. At any time, from the beginning of this issue to the end?
4:20 p.m.
National Security Advisor to the Prime Minister and Associate Secretary to the Cabinet, Privy Council Office
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
4:20 p.m.
An hon. member
You all knew her.
4:20 p.m.
Liberal
Roy Cullen Liberal Etobicoke North, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Thank you, Ms. Bloodworth, Madame Marcoux, and Mr. Tardif.
I find it amazing that when the RCMP did their updated background check in April 2008, they didn't flag this as an issue—but we'll have to leave that for the questioning of the RCMP—because at that point in time, they knew about the relationship between Mr. Bernier and Madame Couillard, and clearly Madame Couillard was a person of interest. She may not have been convicted, but she certainly was on their files. So we'll save that for the RCMP.