Public Safety Committee on June 18th, 2008

[The Chair, Conservative, Garry Breitkreuz]

I'd like to bring this meeting to order.

This is the Standing Committee on Public Safety and National Security.

Before we continue our study in relation to matters concerning the former Minister of Foreign Affairs, I want to tell the committee that I was a little late because I tabled the taser report. So that is now public. I apologize for the inconvenience.

We'd like to welcome, again, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police. I see we have more members than are on my list here, so I'll maybe turn it over to Mr. Paulson.

Who is speaking, Mr. Souccar or Mr. Paulson?

[Assistant Commissioner Raf Souccar, Assistant Commissioner, Federal Policing, Royal Canadian Mounted Police]

We will forgo any opening comments, Mr. Chairman.

[The Chair, Conservative, Garry Breitkreuz]

Okay. Would you please introduce yourselves, then? If you do not have an opening statement, we will then go immediately to questions and comments.

Monsieur Ménard.

[Serge Ménard, Bloc, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

On a point of order, Mr. Chairman. I would like to the witnesses to testify under oath.

[The Chair, Conservative, Garry Breitkreuz]

I'm not sure that's necessary. Anything that is presented at committee is under oath, whenever we have witnesses.

[Thomas Mulcair, NDP, Outremont, QC]

That's not true.

[The Chair, Conservative, Garry Breitkreuz]

Would you like to formalize that, Monsieur Ménard? Do you want them to individually swear each one?

What is your point? What would you like to do?

[Serge Ménard, Bloc, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

I'm asking that the witnesses be sworn in.

[The Chair, Conservative, Garry Breitkreuz]

We'll suspend for a few minutes.

We were not expecting this. I don't think you informed us in time, so we'll have to wait for a bit until we're ready.

[The Chair, Conservative, Garry Breitkreuz]

We'll go back into session now.

Mr. Cullen, on a point of order.

[Roy Cullen, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

Mr. Chair, I'm just inquiring why we deem it necessary to have sworn statements by members of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police. If we can't believe their testimony, I think we're all in deep trouble.

[An hon. member]

Hear, hear!

[The Chair, Conservative, Garry Breitkreuz]

Ms. Jennings, did you have any further comments?

[Marlene Jennings, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC]

I'd like to comment on this request. We Liberals have never had any reason to assume that RCMP members were not telling the truth when they testified before a House committee. We don't agree with Mr. Ménard's request. We assume that RCMP members will be telling the truth and answering our questions to the best of their ability. Mr. Ménard is entitled to press his point, but I think I speak for my Liberal colleagues when I say that we do not believe RCMP members should be compelled to swear an oath before giving testimony to this committee.

[The Chair, Conservative, Garry Breitkreuz]

Thank you.

Mr. MacKenzie.

[Dave MacKenzie, Conservative, Oxford, ON]

Mr. Chair, the Conservative side certainly agrees with what we've heard from the Liberals. We're quite appalled that somebody would ask the RCMP members present at this committee to take an oath.

I don't know the reason. I just think it's an appalling thing to ask them to take an oath before the committee. I think Canadians would wonder why, all of a sudden.... Why wouldn't we ask the members of this committee to take an oath and tell the truth after we've left? It's the same kind of scenario in a different way.

I have all the respect in the world for the members of the RCMP who are here, as do our members. We're certainly in concurrence with the Liberal members that we've heard. We don't think it's necessary, and just inappropriate.

[The Chair, Conservative, Garry Breitkreuz]

Mr. Dosanjh, is this on the same point of order?

[Ujjal Dosanjh, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Yes, I just want to concur with the sentiment expressed. Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Garry Breitkreuz]

Thank you.

Mr. Ménard.

[Serge Ménard, Bloc, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

Mr. Chairman, I insist that the witnesses should swear an oath. Besides, one of the reasons why they are here is because some news releases seem to contradict some of the statements they made when they last testified before the committee. They are back here today to explain the discrepancies between their releases and their testimony.

To my knowledge, I don't need to justify my request. I insist that they be sworn in. If I must give a reason, then it is because they are here to explain the discrepancies between their testimony and the news releases that we subsequently received.

[The Chair, Conservative, Garry Breitkreuz]

Mr. Brown, do you have a point of order?

[Gord Brown, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville, ON]

Yes. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

If Mr. Mulcair or Mr. Ménard want to have our witnesses sworn, they have the opportunity to put that motion forward. If they don't, then they don't need to. If they want that to happen, I would like an opportunity to vote on that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Garry Breitkreuz]

We'll just suspend for a moment. I'm not sure that has to be a motion. I think it's a member's right to do that. We're going to check the Standing Orders here.

[The Chair, Conservative, Garry Breitkreuz]

I've just been informed that we need to have the majority of the committee agree to this. So you'll need to make a motion, sir. Then we'll vote on it.

[Serge Ménard, Bloc, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

Therefore, I would like to move that the three witnesses we are about to hear from be sworn in.