Public Safety Committee on June 18th, 2008

[A/Commr Raf Souccar]

Once again, Mr. Mulcair, I would prefer not to answer that question, because it directly relates to the matter under investigation.

[Thomas Mulcair, NDP, Outremont, QC]

It's a direct question. If you had assumed that the media reports were true, would you have informed the Privy Council Office?

[A/Commr Raf Souccar]

Mr. Chairman, as I said at the outset, I will not be answering any questions specific to this case.

[Thomas Mulcair, NDP, Outremont, QC]

Let me steer you back into more comfortable territory. Let's talk about the Security of Information Act. No doubt you're familiar with the case of Juliet O'Neill. Ms. Couillard has invoked section 4 of this act to justify her refusal to testify before the committee. She says she is worried that pursuant to this provision, she could be prosecuted for having in her possession documents belonging to former Minister Bernier.

Given that this provision was invalidated in 2006 in the wake of the O'Neill affair, do you think the Security of Information Act is relevant to this case?

[Chief Superintendent Bob Paulson, Chief Superintendent and Acting Assistant Commissioner, National Security Criminal Investigations, Royal Canadian Mounted Police]

I'll just say something on the Security of Information Act, section 4, which you spoke of, which was struck down in the constitutional challenge on the Juliet O'Neil case. Again, as the deputy said...and we're not going to speak to the specific case, but it seems to me and it seems to my program that the Security of Information Act remains a valid and appropriate instrument with which to assess criminal intentional misconduct around the handling and distribution of secret material.

[Thomas Mulcair, NDP, Outremont, QC]

Thank you.

Commissioner Soucar, I'd like to get back to you. Earlier, you gave a rather emotional statement in which you talked about your 30 years in the RCMP. You couched your statement very carefully. You said:

“to the best of my knowledge at the time”.

So those are two conditions. The first condition is that it was to the best of your knowledge. The second is that it was at that time. Then you came on with three other conditions. You talked about RCMP policies. You talked hypothetically, about things that had a potential for compromise.

So I'd like to give you the chance now, with the time you've had to look at it...because you made a distinction between today and what you knew at the time. Is there anything you know today that you didn't know the last time you testified before us?

[A/Commr Raf Souccar]

I didn't know the last time that the PCO was going to go public with its statement.

[Thomas Mulcair, NDP, Outremont, QC]

That's the future.

I'm talking about things that had already happened, things that have appeared in the paper since then, things that the RCMP would have known from its own investigations, things that you testified on. Or do you maintain the testimony that you gave before us at that time?

[A/Commr Raf Souccar]

Nothing comes to mind. I may have greater knowledge about the facts surrounding the matter that we're here to testify about, which I'm not, unfortunately, at liberty—I understand your frustration—to talk about.

[Thomas Mulcair, NDP, Outremont, QC]

I'm far from frustrated.

[A/Commr Raf Souccar]

But I may have greater knowledge today than I did last week.

[Thomas Mulcair, NDP, Outremont, QC]

What's the source of that greater knowledge, Mr. Souccar?

[A/Commr Raf Souccar]

Discussion with colleagues, perhaps some research that's been done.

[Thomas Mulcair, NDP, Outremont, QC]

What was the nature of that research?

[A/Commr Raf Souccar]

Now, you see, we're getting into what it is that we may or may not be doing with respect to this matter, and I'm not prepared to do that.

[Thomas Mulcair, NDP, Outremont, QC]

Who are the colleagues you had conversations with?

[A/Commr Raf Souccar]

Mr. Paulson.

[Thomas Mulcair, NDP, Outremont, QC]

Were there others?

[A/Commr Raf Souccar]

People within my office.

[Thomas Mulcair, NDP, Outremont, QC]

Have you taken notes since the beginning of this affair?

[A/Commr Raf Souccar]

Yes, I probably would have taken notes.

[Thomas Mulcair, NDP, Outremont, QC]

Are you willing to share them with the members of this committee?

[A/Commr Raf Souccar]

I may be willing to share some of them. We'd have to look through the notes with respect to what I may and may not share with you.

[Thomas Mulcair, NDP, Outremont, QC]

What types of things would you not share with us, and why?

[A/Commr Raf Souccar]

At this point, anything specific to the investigation I would not be willing to share with you.