Evidence of meeting #14 for Public Safety and National Security in the 40th Parliament, 3rd session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was privacy.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Dave MacKenzie Conservative Oxford, ON
Okay. What I did notice then when I went through it was that there were some other agencies that had concerns dealing with a previous report. I'm not sure where the other report came in, because the program is fairly new.
Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Safety and Security, Department of Transport
Yes, the program is only three years old.
Conservative
Dave MacKenzie Conservative Oxford, ON
Would this have been the only Privacy Commissioner's report conducted on the program?
Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Safety and Security, Department of Transport
Yes, there was only the one privacy audit conducted on the program.
Conservative
Dave MacKenzie Conservative Oxford, ON
So in this report ending March 2009, can you tell me in a broad sense, has the department identified within the department and corrected these issues that have been highlighted that may be of concern?
Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Safety and Security, Department of Transport
Yes, we have.
Essentially I would point out, first of all, that the report itself indicated that adequate collection controls to protect personal information were in place, that acceptable controls for the use of personal information were in place, that controls for the retention of personal information were there, and that mechanisms were there to ensure that the specified persons list was accurate.
That said, there were four recommendations that the Privacy Commissioner made with respect to improving the program. The first was the indication that when the deputy minister receives a recommendation from the advisory group, the deputy minister should receive with it the full file.
The deputy minister is delegated by the minister to make the determination on whether someone is put on or taken off the list. When the program first started, the deputy minister was getting a summary of that file, with all the information being available to the deputy minister at the time if he should wish to avail himself of it. We've now changed that practice. When a recommendation goes up to the deputy minister, the deputy minister receives the full file and can review the full file before that determination is made.
The second item was with respect to the computer system that's used to maintain the list. The Privacy Commissioner felt that we should have formal accreditation and certification with respect to technology security. We felt we had done that. There was a bit of an issue there that we went back and forth on. To satisfy the Privacy Commissioner, we undertook to do an accreditation and certification of the security of the system, and that has now been done.
Third, the commissioner thought we should amend our identity screening regulations to require air carriers to report any privacy breaches, such as the list getting into the hands of someone who wasn't screened to see it. We actually have a provision in the regulations that makes sharing or distributing the list against the law, but the Privacy Commissioner thought we should also put the onus on the airline to actually notify us if that information had been shared. That is something we're considering as part of the regulatory review that I talked about.
The final item was that they thought we should enhance our oversight activities of the airlines and how they treat the list. We have accepted that recommendation and we have increased our oversight of the airlines.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Garry Breitkreuz
We'll have to come back to you.
Go ahead, Mr. Wrzesnewskyj, please.
Liberal
Borys Wrzesnewskyj Liberal Etobicoke Centre, ON
Thank you, Chair.
These lists are name-based. Do you also provide photographs of individuals who are on the list, or passport information?
Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Safety and Security, Department of Transport
No.
Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Safety and Security, Department of Transport
The only things on the list are name, date of birth, and gender.
Liberal
Borys Wrzesnewskyj Liberal Etobicoke Centre, ON
If a clear record has been established that results in people being on this list, one would assume that photographs of these individuals would be available. Why wouldn't those be made available on the list for verification at ticket counters if a name pops up?
Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Safety and Security, Department of Transport
It is because we want to keep that portion of the information within the federal government. We feel it's much easier to keep that information secure if we hold on to it. That is why we make our--
Liberal
Borys Wrzesnewskyj Liberal Etobicoke Centre, ON
If you provide the details of the name, age, etc., of an individual, and the individual is standing right there, why wouldn't you provide a photograph to the ticketing agent or the boarding agent so that they could verify that this is the individual who is on the list? I don't quite catch that particular logic.
Let me move on. You said there have been two false positives that you're aware of. Those are people who were prevented from boarding--
Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Safety and Security, Department of Transport
No. It was a false positive. The call came to our office; we managed to resolve those issues, and those people did board their plane.
Liberal
Borys Wrzesnewskyj Liberal Etobicoke Centre, ON
Okay, but those were people who were on the list. How often have you had to remove people from a list who've challenged being categorized as a threat and challenged being on the no-fly list? Has that occurred?
Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Safety and Security, Department of Transport
No....
Liberal
Borys Wrzesnewskyj Liberal Etobicoke Centre, ON
To date, nobody has challenged the fact that they are on a no-fly list in Canada.
Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Safety and Security, Department of Transport
Yes, there is one case before the courts right now where a person has challenged being on the list.
Liberal
Borys Wrzesnewskyj Liberal Etobicoke Centre, ON
So there is a case. So there is a precedent for it. But you don't inform people if they're put on the list. You said that previously.
Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Safety and Security, Department of Transport
That is correct. They're only informed if they try to board a flight.
Liberal
Borys Wrzesnewskyj Liberal Etobicoke Centre, ON
There's a committee that establishes this.
Mr. Tremblay, are you part of that committee?
Liberal
Borys Wrzesnewskyj Liberal Etobicoke Centre, ON
I wasn't clear. It's a sit-down with the minister. Is that correct?
C/Supt Larry Tremblay
No, sir. A member of the RCMP and a member of the service and a member of Transport Canada make up that committee. Based on the deliberation within that committee a recommendation is made to Transport Canada, who takes that recommendation to--