Evidence of meeting #18 for Public Safety and National Security in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was firearm.
A recording is available from Parliament.
President, Canadian Police Association
I agree. It would have to become a provincial responsibility, be administered by the provinces and no longer be in the hands of the federal government. That would be the only way to do it, and I can tell you that we are completely against that idea.
Bloc
Maria Mourani Bloc Ahuntsic, QC
Okay. My understanding is that to decriminalize the offence of not registering a firearm, intentionally or not, we must deregulate registration and tell the provinces to handle the offence themselves. Otherwise, it remains a crime.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Garry Breitkreuz
Thank you very much.
Mr. Comartin is not here, but he's made an agreement with Mr. Wrzesnewskyj.
Go ahead, sir.
Liberal
Borys Wrzesnewskyj Liberal Etobicoke Centre, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to all the witnesses for appearing.
Mr. Momy, we've heard that you represent 156 police associations and some 75,000 member police officers. We've also heard you reference the use your rank-and-file officers make of the gun registry: 92% use it, 65% use it day to day, and 73% use it in response to calls, so it seems to show tremendous usage.
We also have some other numbers here showing that not only is the percentage of usage and take-up significant, but the number of queries has increased from 2,087 in 2004 to 11,085 last year. That's an increase in usage of more than 531% over a period of five years.
Now if the registry was not doing its job, wouldn't the usage decrease? I find it hard to follow the logic here. We have an increase in usage. We have a high percentage of usage. That seems to indicate that police officers use it because it's working.
President, Canadian Police Association
In regard to the reference material and statistical information I provided, in 2007 the RCMP Canadian firearms program was the one that instituted a survey of our members across this country, so that is one.
A significant portion of the information you are highlighting comes from the RCMP itself. All of the data that we have requested, for the most part, come from the Canadian firearms program, from the RCMP itself.
What I can say is the following: I agree with you that we have seen a significant increase in the usage of the gun registry itself, which, again, is just one component of the Canadian firearms program. My take on this is that we have seen a significant change in the way the Canadian firearms program is being managed. We all know that it was taken over by the RCMP in, I believe, 2006-2007. We have seen significant increases in its usage by front-line members in those particular years.
As I indicated, I won't dispute the fact there are autolinks connected to police computers across this country, specifically in Toronto and B.C. that we know of, but even if we take those numbers out, it's still 50%.
Liberal
Borys Wrzesnewskyj Liberal Etobicoke Centre, ON
Great. Thank you.
It seems there's a high take-up of the registry among police officers: 92% of them use it, and they use it often and at increasing rates. That seems to indicate that it is a useful police tool. In fact, you gave us examples of some of Canada's worst crimes. In Mayerthorpe, where we lost four of our officers, it helped in solving that particular crime.
Do you personally believe that this registry has saved the lives of front-line police officers?
President, Canadian Police Association
That's a tough question to answer. I'll tell you why.
I'll go to what Dr. Drummond was talking about in regard to the registry. It would take me quite a few minutes to explain this in regard to the saving of a life. Can I point to one incident and say that the registry has saved the life of this particular individual? No, I can't say that, but what I can say is that when—
Liberal
Borys Wrzesnewskyj Liberal Etobicoke Centre, ON
I was talking more about your gut feeling, because it's difficult to lay out empirical evidence that would say this is the case. It's not the nature of the tool.
President, Canadian Police Association
Right. In my own police experience and from my own gut feeling there are certainly many cases, if we were to start digging through all of them, in which it saved people's lives, and more specifically in the areas that Dr. Drummond speaks of in regard to suicides.
Liberal
Borys Wrzesnewskyj Liberal Etobicoke Centre, ON
Thank you. I'd like to address another issue.
We heard reference to three retired police officers from the Winnipeg Police Service. One in particular, a Mr. Tinsley, made some allegations that I found quite disturbing.
Before I address those, are your police associations democratically elected? Are you democratically elected?
President, Canadian Police Association
They are. In each of the 156 associations, the president and the executive are elected.
Liberal
Borys Wrzesnewskyj Liberal Etobicoke Centre, ON
These aren't appointed positions, but elected positions, and you represent the rank-and-file officers.
Liberal
Borys Wrzesnewskyj Liberal Etobicoke Centre, ON
I asked because we heard allegations that the police had been “effectively silenced”, meaning that your rank-and-file members have been effectively silenced. That is one quote. Furthermore, it's been alleged that police officers have been intimidated and were told “not to attend here”.
I find a strange disconnect between hearing these conspiracy theories propagated and the point that this is not really the view of the police. We hear that the democratically elected representatives of rank-and-file police in 150 of 156 police associations say they support this. Then, of course, there will be people with different views, but then we hear—
Liberal
Borys Wrzesnewskyj Liberal Etobicoke Centre, ON
—a report that it's a conspiracy. There's a conspiracy theory.
Since I have little time left, I'd like to go to Mr. Rahilly. If we could once again see the weapon that was used at Dawson College, you drew a parallel between that weapon and the one that was used at École Polytechnique, the Ruger Mini-14. It was a weapon that killed 14 women and injured another 13 women in less than 30 minutes.
Is it correct or not correct that without the gun registry, that weapon--the Ruger Mini-14--would no longer be registered in Canada?
Spokesperson, Dawson College Committee for Gun Control
No. Well, if the registry is gone--no, I'm sorry; I'll just be clear about it. This--
Spokesperson, Dawson College Committee for Gun Control
Yes, the restricted weapon... In fact, the people to my right could answer that question better than I can. Semi-automatic--
Conservative
Spokesperson, Dawson College Committee for Gun Control
Yes, semi-automatic rifles would be wiped off the record.
Liberal