Public Safety Committee on May 25th, 2010

[Pierre-Hugues Boisvenu]

Mrs. Mourani, what I'm telling you is that it is not the registry that enables us to take away the firearm. Information may have been disclosed by a neighbour, by a spouse or by some other individuals. The withdrawal of a firearm is not necessarily triggered by the registry—the spouse may have denounced her husband, who has a firearm, and requested that it be seized—even though, according to the registry, we can see that a firearm has been withdrawn.

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

I understand what you are getting at. However, that is not what I'm trying to get across, and I know that I do not have very much time.

Perhaps we should improve the registry. Nevertheless, in your opinion, do you feel that at present we can determine whether or not the registry is a tool enabling the police to take dangerous firearms out of circulation and prevent crimes from occurring?

[Pierre-Hugues Boisvenu]

It's a matter of costs.

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

We're talking about $4 million.

[Pierre-Hugues Boisvenu]

I think it is naive to think that it costs us $4 million to administer the registry.

We are forgetting about two things. First of all, we are forgetting that it has not been updated for years. Secondly, we are forgetting about the cost of lawsuits. Let us not forget that the Firearms Act does not provide for the registration of firearms alone, but also for the legal prosecution of offenders. There is a cost associated with that.

For instance, if one million firearms are not registered, will the government invest the requisite money in order to prosecute these individuals who, according to the law—I would remind you of this—may be given a 7-year prison term?

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

Unfortunately, there is currently an amnesty in effect which lets them run around.

[Pierre-Hugues Boisvenu]

I do understand, but if we were to take the law—

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

It is true that, at present, it is difficult to administer the registry because of this amnesty.

[Pierre-Hugues Boisvenu]

Mrs. Mourani, I am asking you whether or not we could prosecute these people if we were to restore the gun registry. If so, how much would it cost?

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

According to the current legislation, yes.

[Pierre-Hugues Boisvenu]

But what will it cost? Have you calculated the cost?

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

One moment.

I have some questions for Mr. Mauser, and given the amount of time I have left, I will not be able to ask them all.

[The Chair, Conservative, Garry Breitkreuz]

You have half a minute.

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

Mr. Mauser, we have been told that you are the person who advised the government about the firearms. Is that correct? As far as the gun registry is concerned, you would be a person of prominence. You have even been quoted by Mr. Day several times in letters.

[Dr. Gary Mauser]

I'm glad that people quote me, but I can't say I'm an official specialist or an official adviser. You'd have to ask the Conservative Party or the government themselves. If they've hired me, I've received no cheque and received no title, so I think the answer is no.

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

Very well.

As an expert in criminal law, do you own any firearms?

[The Chair, Conservative, Garry Breitkreuz]

One more response.

[Dr. Gary Mauser]

Several years after coming to Canada, I started researching the sociology of gun owners as part of my academic program. Before I started this research, I was as naive about guns as any professor. I knew nothing about guns. After I finished the research and I discovered that the myths about gun ownership were laughably false, that gun owners were in fact honest, contributing members of society, that their violence rates were lower than non-gun owners, then I purchased my first gun. It was an old-style black-powder firearm.

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

How many firearms do you have?

[The Chair, Conservative, Garry Breitkreuz]

Mr. Comartin, please.

Sorry, we went way over time here.

[Joe Comartin, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, witnesses, for being here.

Ms. Ducharme, perhaps I could start with you. The Prime Minister in the run-up to the election in 2008—it was in August or September—was in the Miramichi area, and promised that there would be no job losses at the centre if the long-gun registry was gotten rid of.

I'd like to know if you heard about those comments he made and if there would be no job losses if the long-gun registry was in fact gotten rid of.

[Patty Ducharme]

Yes, I did hear that those comments and promises had been made. I think it's of note that when the registry was actually situated in Miramichi, it was as a result of the economic devastation that followed the closing of the base in New Brunswick. Although there are only 238 jobs at the gun registry, as opposed to many hundreds and hundreds of jobs....

But the Prime Minister did make those comments. I've been on the phone talking to our members. They know that I'm here this afternoon. No one knows what the government has as an alternative should the gun registry close.

[Joe Comartin, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Okay.

Ms. Cukier, you didn't give us any particular information on the impact on accidental deaths. You mentioned it a couple of times.

Are there any statistics anywhere that we could look to, pre-long-gun registry and post-long-gun-registry, on the rate of accidental death? I'm looking here with regard to children and adults.

[Wendy Cukier]

Unintentional injuries or accidental deaths are actually a very small percentage of the overall firearm deaths. In 1991 there were about 1,400 firearm deaths in Canada. That was primarily suicide and homicide. Accidents were about 25.

The number of accidental deaths has in fact declined steadily over time. The registry no doubt contributes, because it helps enforce the safe storage provisions. It's one of the arguments that the police have made over and over.

But overall, the accidental deaths are a relatively small percentage of firearm deaths. I do have Canada's mortality statistics, and I can look it up for you, but not quite so quickly. It's under 20 a year, essentially.

[Joe Comartin, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

When Senator Boisvenu was making a comment, you shook your head and said it wasn't true. Could you comment as to what you felt was inaccurate in his statement?