Public Safety Committee on May 27th, 2010

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Mark Holland]

Thank you very much.

Now I'm going to turn to committee members for questions.

Committee members, I'll give you a warning at both two minutes and one minute so that you can prepare to keep your comments under, in the first round, seven minutes.

Mr. Proulx, for seven minutes.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Good afternoon, ladies, gentlemen--doctor.

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Committee.

Mr. Chairman, I would particularly like to convey greetings to my favourite Auditor General, Ms. Fraser.

Good afternoon, Ms. Fraser. Greetings as well to Minister Dupuis.

Mr. Dupuis, you mentioned something quite quickly earlier. You are accompanied today by a number of people, and I would ask that you tell us again who they are.

[Jacques Dupuis]

Thank you for asking that question, Mr. Proulx. It is often said that politicians have big egos, but it is important never to forget humility. One must never forget one's humility and the need to remain humble. I would never have thought that my appearance before the Committee, as Minister of Public Safety for Quebec, would have been adequate had I not been accompanied by a number of people whose position is exactly the one I laid out. I mentioned earlier to the Committee that I am accompanied today by Ms. De Sousa, whose daughter, Anastasia, died tragically during the events that occurred at Dawson College. She is here today with her husband, Nelson. Ms. Suzanne Laplante-Edward is also here with her husband. She is the mother of Anne-Marie, who tragically died during the events at the École polytechnique. Both are fervent advocates for the maintenance of the Canadian Firearms Registry. Mr. Bruno Marchand, Mr. Luc Massicotte, Ms. Marie-Ève Plamondon and Ms. Julie Herman-Lemelin are also with me today. They are four members of the Quebec Suicide Prevention Association. Other individuals accompanying me today are Mr. Yves Morency, President of the Quebec Police Chiefs Association, Mr. Denis Côté, President of the Quebec Municipal Police Federation, and Mr. Yves Francoeur, President of the Montreal Police Brotherhood. The only person you see in uniform behind me is the Chief Firearms Officer for Quebec. He is responsible for operating the Registry.

I will just conclude by saying that, when the Conservative government announced its intention to abolish the Canadian Firearms Registry, I wanted to act as a focal point and ensure that these individuals would work together in opposing the abolition of the Registry. They have supported us throughout this struggle, and that is the reason why they are here today. Indeed, they will be available to answer reporters' questions. It is important that they have a chance to present their views. Thank you.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Thank you, Minister, and welcome to all the people accompanying you. Welcome to our Parliament.

Minister, you are probably aware of some of the commitments that have been made by the Leader of the Liberal Party of Canada with respect to the future. I invite you to comment on that. I am thinking, in particular, of the fact that people would not be charged per se, that there would be a fine instead, that the fees would be abolished, and so on. Could you just take 30 seconds to address that?

[Jacques Dupuis]

I have been in politics for almost as many years as you have. So, I will be very pleased to answer your question, while I also try to avoid falling into a trap.

In appearing before you today, I am aware that the minority government is seeking to have a bill passed that would abolish the Canadian Firearms Registry, something that is contrary to our position. So, my purpose in being here is to present my arguments to these members of the minority who introduced the bill, and also to meet with members of the Opposition, be they Liberals, Block members, or NDP members.

This is how I see the Liberal leader's suggestions. First of all, I am satisfied with them, for two main reasons. The first is that he asked his caucus to vote unanimously against abolition of the Canadian Firearms Registry. That is the first source of satisfaction, obviously, from our standpoint. Second, without judging the merits of the measures Mr. Ignatieff has made public, I would say that they seem satisfactory for the following reason: they are aimed at people who feel frustrated by the existence of the Canadian Firearms Registry, particularly our friends—and I say that with a great deal of affection—who are hunters. Mr. Ignatieff has brought forward suggested amendments which would mean that these individuals would no longer feel victimized by the Canadian Firearms Registry: no ongoing fees, simpler registration procedures and no criminal charges the first time someone neglects to register a gun. They are aimed specifically at these individuals.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Yes, because you are out of time.

[Jacques Dupuis]

I am out of time? Do you think so? All right, then; I will be quiet now.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Very quickly, you referred earlier to Anastasia's Law. I am curious about this and would like you to briefly tell us what it is all about. I would also like you to tell us in what way Quebec is different from the other regions and provinces in terms of gun control.

[Jacques Dupuis]

The extremely tragic events that occurred where guns were used have caused tremendous suffering and distress. Of course, I refer to Polytechnique, but also the incidents at Concordia and Dawson College. Following the events at Dawson College, the Premier of Quebec, Mr. Charest, was very concerned about the situation and, despite the fact that the federal government has jurisdiction over gun control, Mr. Charest wanted to do something to better protect the public in general in Quebec. So, Anastasia's Law was introduced, and we succeeded in prohibiting the possession of firearms in educational institutions across Quebec. We also made it an offence to possess a firearm in an educational institution. Furthermore, we added measures dealing with the control, acquisition and possession of a licence. I would just like to give you one example.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Mark Holland]

I am sorry, Mr. Dupuis, but the time is up.

[Jacques Dupuis]

Sorry, my apologies.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Mark Holland]

All witnesses have an opportunity to forward additional information to us following our meetings.

Ms. Mourani is up now, for seven minutes.

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Good afternoon, one and all. I would like to convey special greetings to Mr. Dupuis, who is my neighbour. We are good neighbours.

Welcome, Ms. Fraser, and everyone who is with us today.

I also convey my greetings to the entire delegation and want to express my thanks to them for coming today to tell us a little about Quebec's vision.

I would like to follow up on what my colleague, Mr. Proulx, was saying. You mentioned earlier that suggested amendments to the bill might be coming forward from the Liberal Party that would, in particular, remove the possibility of criminal charges. I must admit that I have been thinking about this for some time and I really do not understand how that could be done under the current bill.

I have asked a number of stakeholders about that. They say the bill cannot be amended, and that it must be defeated. Could you help me understand?

[Jacques Dupuis]

If you are asking me to give a legal opinion on the potential amendments proposed by Mr. Ignatieff, I have to say that I have not reviewed his first proposed amendment in terms of its constitutionality or otherwise. My only comment is—and this is a political answer that I am giving you—that it is clear to me, having heard the comments made by Mr. Bernardo, Ms. Cabrera, Mr. Pelletier and Mr. Cossette, who are in favour of abolishing the Canadian Firearms Registry, and who are hunters who practice target shooting, that they are frustrated and feel that their rights are being infringed. Their first argument is that they feel as though they are being treated like criminals, because they are required to register their guns. One fact is inescapable, however, and we cannot ignore it: unfortunately, long guns are used to commit homicides and suicides and cause injuries to innocent people. That does not mean that the people who own these guns are criminals; not at all.

When Mr. Ignatieff suggests that if an individual neglects to register a gun once, there could be some mechanism whereby… I do not want to get involved in the legal argument, but Crown prosecutors could decide--

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

So, we are not talking about the bill.

[Jacques Dupuis]

--not to prosecute in such cases, for example.

In proposing this, Mr. Ignatieff is responding directly to their concerns and frustration, and it seems to me that these amendments could encourage these individuals to rally to the suggestion that the Canadian Firearms Registry be maintained.

However, Ms. Mourani, I do not want to argue with you about the legal meaning of the amendments; I am giving you a strictly political answer.

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

Thank you.

I have some questions for Mr. Cossette or Mr. Pelletier.

I was listening to your comments earlier—particularly the ones made by Mr. Pelletier. You work in the field; I believe you teach courses and that sort of thing. You are surely a hunter yourself, I imagine.

[Bernard Pelletier]

Yes, you could say that.

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

How could it be otherwise, right? What I would like to know is, when hunters go hunting, do they use a vehicle?

[Bernard Pelletier]

Yes, usually.

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

Is it registered?

[Bernard Pelletier]

Yes.

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

Do some hunters travel in ATVs?

[Bernard Pelletier]

Yes.

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

Are they registered?