I appreciate that. I think I'm understanding now.
The point I would like to make with regard to this motion is, first and foremost, that the added information Mr. Holland now claims he made, which included the word “expert”, is in contention with what we heard.
First and foremost, the experts who appeared here supported the repeal, clearly supported the repeal, of the long-gun registry. I don't know who Mr. Holland is referring to, but the only experts who are declared experts.... For the purposes of being an expert, there is a lengthy process involved in being declared an expert witness, and there are very few declared expert witnesses in this country. The experts who appeared here, who have legitimately been declared and followed the process, were not in agreement with keeping the long-gun registry.
If you would allow me, sir, please let me refer to the experts who spoke here.
I'll refer to the first expert who spoke here. That expert was Mr. Jack Tinsley. I'll read from the blues of his testimony. He stated: “I have been declared an expert in the area of illegal street drugs and drug trafficking at all levels of Manitoba courts. These experiences and many others in a progression of higher ranks over the span of my career have led me to three conclusions...”. He then goes on. I'm not going to continue to read the whole thing. But Mr. Tinsley, who was a 30-plus year member of the Winnipeg Police Service, has followed the process, is an expert witness, and stated clearly that he does not believe in the long-gun registry, seeks a repeal of the long-gun registry, and completely agrees with our side with regard to that and with the bill put forward by Ms. Candice Hoeppner.
The second witness who is a declared expert is Mr. Grismer. Let me flip my page to Mr. Grismer's testimony, so that I might read into evidence as well the fact that he is an expert witness. Here's what he said in his brief:
The Courts in Saskatchewan have qualified me as an Expert Witness, able to give opinion evidence on firearms. I have provided assistance to both Federal and Provincial prosecutions in the area of firearms related crime. I am Master Instructor for the Canadian Firearms Safety Courses (Non-restricted and Restricted) and an Approved Verifier, certified by the Registrar of the Canadian Firearm Registry since September 2001.
So I would say that this is contrary to what Mr. Holland has led this committee to believe. The experts who are declared experts do not agree with Mr. Holland's statement. Again, Mr. Grismer goes on to side with Ms. Candice Hoeppner's bill in asking to repeal the long-gun registry.
So we now have Mr. Tinsley, who is a retired police officer, and we have Mr. Murray Grismer, who is an active police officer, and both are declared expert witnesses, through a lengthy process that not many officers get in their lifetime career.
Now I'll go to the third expert witness, if I may. We had another fellow who indicated he was--and he used the words--an “expert witness”. That was a Mr. Bernardo. I would cite a letter sent to all committee members and submitted through our clerk, Mr. Roger Préfontaine. In that submission to this committee, Mr. Bernardo indicates:
I am a member of the Public Safety Minister's Firearms Advisory Committee and a previous member of the Justice Minister's Firearms Experts Technical Committee. I have also served as an Expert Witness in court trials regarding firearms and have addressed the United Nations four times on behalf of Canadian firearms owners.
As far as I can recall--and I may be wrong--there may have been other people who are designated expert witnesses, but these are the three that came to my mind immediately. When Mr. Holland used that word to describe, in bulk, that experts side with him, he misled the committee. He completely misled the committee.
I take offence to that. The testimony that was provided by these experts was clear. Mr. Bernardo agrees. He believes there should be a repeal of the long-gun registry. Again, I've only brought up three that came to mind.
Mr. Holland has completely misled this committee, which continues to happen, and it's shameful. It is shameful.
I would submit, Mr. Chair, that the experts agree. They agree with Ms. Hoeppner that the long-gun registry is not doing what it was intended to do.
Unfortunately, the statements made by Mr. Holland were made in an effort, I believe.... Well, it is possible he made a mistake. It is possible. But there have been a number of mistakes, then, and we've got to stop this. We've got to clearly cite the experts. We've got to clearly state what happened in committee, and what happened is that the witnesses who came before us were not unanimously in agreement. Parliamentarians are not unanimously in agreement. So any motion that is put forward that would suggest in any way that there is unanimity I would be completely against. It would not be truthful. It would not in fact be serving Canadians to do something that was dishonest.
I wouldn't suggest that any of us are trying to do that. But making misleading comments like the ones Mr. Holland just made is not fair to Canadians, because they may not have had the benefit of sitting through all the testimony. The experts clearly said they believe we ought to repeal the long-gun registry, and anyone who says different is misleading.
From here on out, since I've made these comments publicly, should they dispute that or claim that experts said otherwise, I would suggest it would be an outright lie and a disservice to Canadians. It would be a disservice to every expert who appeared here with their credentials and a disservice to every single one of these witnesses who came here of their own goodwill to do the right thing, to make sure we look at this bill in an effective manner and in a fair manner. I think what's missing sometimes is the fairness in all of this.
I will not vote for this motion because it is not reflective of what happened here. I am going to vote with the experts, and I am going to vote to repeal the long-gun registry.
Thank you, Mr. Chair.