Evidence of meeting #28 for Public Safety and National Security in the 40th Parliament, 3rd session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was fadden.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Director, Canadian Security Intelligence Service
Mr. Chairman, there's a long-standing tradition acceptable to all committees of the House that discussions between officials and ministers are confidential.
Liberal
Andrew Kania Liberal Brampton West, ON
That's fine. So what you're saying is that you won't. I understand.
Now, in terms of additional information, with regard to the individuals you have commented upon--the cabinet ministers and the municipal officials--if you read through the various newspaper articles, e-mails, and stories, everybody is saying that if you have serious credible information--and once again, in this committee we don't know what it is--we should be made aware of it; somebody should be doing something about it; and we should also be in essence clearing the persons you're not referring to.
So I'm going to ask you to provide the names of the individuals you are referring to--the cabinet ministers, the municipal officials--and the information, the cause of concerns. Because once again, you said here, “real danger”, so when you use that phraseology you should be referring to the individual and saying what the concerns are. That's also a method to make sure the other people are not categorized in a way that isn't fair to them.
Director, Canadian Security Intelligence Service
Mr. Chairman, as I am sure you are aware, I am unable to do this. These are operational details. The law requires me to report to the government. I will be doing so very shortly. My understanding is that we will have a discussion, and it will be decided what the next steps will be.
Conservative
Kelly Block Conservative Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Good morning, and welcome, Mr. Fadden, Mr. Dunn, and Mr. Ellis.
Mr. Fadden, in earlier testimony today you stated that you knew your speech was being taped but that as the Q and As went on you lost the sense that the cameras were still rolling. So whether or not the cameras were still rolling, I'm wondering if you could please tell us why it's appropriate for you as the director of CSIS to tell an audience at a black-tie event information that pertains to your job before you've informed the chain of command as appropriate.
Director, Canadian Security Intelligence Service
Well, as I have indicated on a couple of occasions already, clearly that was not the thing to do, and I regret it. I would not do so again. But I think the important part of all of this is to realize that I really didn't think I was giving away any state secrets, because I was not. Foreign interference is a problem here that we've known about for a long time. And if foreign interference is going to be exercised on the Canadian political system, it has to be exercised by people who play in the political system. I was adding a level of detail that I should not have.
Conservative
Kelly Block Conservative Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK
Do you also know that the military institute has posted an audio file of your remarks on its website?
Conservative
Kelly Block Conservative Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK
Okay.
I want to draw your attention to certain things said during the June 22 CBC broadcast. They may have been mentioned already, but I will repeat them.
Peter Mansbridge began by saying, “Well, the interview itself is unprecedented...”. He also said, speaking of your comments, “It all came out during the extraordinary access CSIS gave to our former senior correspondent, Brian Stewart.” Brian Stewart called it an exclusive interview, and later in the same broadcast Peter Mansbridge said, “Richard Fadden first made similar remarks in a recent speech, which we had exclusive access to.”
Did the CBC approach CSIS, or did CSIS approach the CBC?
Director, Canadian Security Intelligence Service
My understanding is that the CBC approached the service many months ago, well before I was director, with a view to producing a special on the 25th anniversary of CSIS. I understand that was discussed at length within the government at the time, and that approval in principle was given. After I was appointed director, the matter came up again, and I can't remember if it was we who raised it with them, or they with us. We thought it would be a useful thing to do--to have the 25th anniversary program--but the initial idea came from the CBC.
Conservative
Kelly Block Conservative Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK
So it was for the 25th anniversary program.
Do you think it is helpful for CSIS to be giving unprecedented, extraordinary, exclusive media briefings about the specific intelligence it collects?
Conservative
Kelly Block Conservative Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK
Okay.
Did anyone from CSIS provide classified information to the CBC or any other media organization?
Conservative
Kelly Block Conservative Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK
Did you or anyone from CSIS provide information to the CBC or any other media on an off-the-record or on-background basis?
Director, Canadian Security Intelligence Service
I certainly did not, either in my interviews or my discussions with Mr. Mansbridge or Mr. Stewart. The access we provided to CSIS was quite organized and structured, because we didn't want to risk giving away any operational information. So I would have to say no, I do not believe that we did.
Conservative
Kelly Block Conservative Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK
Okay. Could you find out for us? Could you check and then bring that information back to us?
Conservative
Kelly Block Conservative Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK
Okay, thanks. That's good.
Do I still have time?
Conservative
Kelly Block Conservative Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK
Undoubtedly, sir, you have been following the recent news from the U.S. regarding the case of alleged Russian spies--and I say "alleged", although I have read that some have actually confessed. According to papers filed in the U.S. district court, the job of these agents was to search and develop ties in policy-making circles in the United States.
Let me read briefly from a recent story that ran in The Vancouver Sun on June 29.
Conservative
Kelly Block Conservative Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK
Okay.
The FBI has broken up a Russian spy ring, some of whose members were posing as Canadian citizens, the Department of Justice announced Monday.
I'll come back.
