Public Safety Committee on March 18th, 2010

[Borys Wrzesnewskyj, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

It was the previous president, Mr. Alain Jolicoeur, who in the public accounts committee talked about these costs spiralling out of control and said that it's now costing approximately $200,000 to arm each agent with a handgun. So there's a billion-dollar boondoggle just on that one particular issue.

It then begs the question: at that same committee we heard that 21% of individuals—one of every five—coming into the country who were flagged for secondary inspection on immigration matters were getting through without secondary inspection because we don't have integrated information systems, because resources have not been put into integrated information systems. So on one hand, we're giving low-tech handguns at $200,000 a pop to agents, yet at our airports one of every five flagged people is passing through Canada Border Services agents' posts because they don't have integrated systems.

Are our priorities in the right place, Minister?

[The Chair, Conservative, Garry Breitkreuz]

Mr. Toews.

[Vic Toews, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

All right, I'll leave that to Mr. Rigby.

[Stephen Rigby]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Let me address some of your facts and figures, sir.

The amount the government set aside and originally estimated for the arming customs officers and border officers was $781 million, which was set in 2006. That number has not changed since 2006, and I can assure you that the project to arm my officers is proceeding on course, on budget. There has been no spiralling of costs; the costs have remained constant since the original estimates were made.

[The Chair, Conservative, Garry Breitkreuz]

Thank you. We can come back to this later.

Ms. Mourani, please.

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Minister, I want to come back to...

[The Chair, Conservative, Garry Breitkreuz]

That's a mistake. Mr. Norlock is next. You're after Mr. Norlock.

[Rick Norlock, Conservative, Northumberland—Quinte West, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Minister and department heads, thank you very much for coming today. You've been so far very informative, and I know there's more to come.

Minister, yesterday you made an important announcement about additional actions the government is going to take with regard to the sex offender registry and the DNA databank. Would you mind explaining how these proposed changes are helping better to protect Canadians and also are assisting law enforcement officers in investigating and preventing these offences?

[Vic Toews, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

Thank you very much. Yesterday indeed I did make an announcement, and it was attended by Senator Boisvenu and also Chief White from the Ottawa city police and Ms. Illingworth from a victims group, who are all very excited about this particular initiative. This bill is being introduced into the Senate.

What it does is strengthen the sex offender registry and the databank base. When the legislation for the sex offender registry was first brought forward, there was a very convoluted procedural process put into place, and warnings were made at the time to the government of the day that it was going to fail because of unnecessarily putting all of these procedural hurdles in the way. That is essentially what happened.

After a sex offender was convicted of an offence, there was a gap while the courts then determined whether or not an individual should be put on the sex offender registry. The RCMP figures are that 42% of the sex offenders who should be on the registry are not on it, because the registration doesn't occur automatically upon conviction. This was the exact problem that the prior Liberal government was warned about, and they proceeded on this basis anyway. The implications of that are very significant.

So we're working hard not to fix a gap in the law but basically a gaping hole in the law. We want to make sure that police officers have the appropriate tools, not only through the sex offender registry but through the automatic provision of DNA samples.

The other matter we brought in, which is in this bill, is the ability of police officers to use the registry in a proactive manner. Prior to this time, when police officers were confronted with a complaint about an individual being parked in front of a schoolyard or a playground, which Chief White says is the most common complaint, about a stranger being there—and you being a former police chief yourself, I think—

[Rick Norlock, Conservative, Northumberland—Quinte West, ON]

Police officer.

[Vic Toews, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

Police officer. It's Mr. MacKenzie who was the police chief. In fact, there are three of you there.

In any event, you know the common complaint that is brought forward. Are you a police officer, too, Mr....?

[Brent Rathgeber, Conservative, Edmonton—St. Albert, AB]

No.

[A voice]

He just wants to be.

[Vic Toews, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

Anyway, I'm glad that we have all of you here. I just noticed the police officers.

The police could not access the sex offender registry before a crime was committed. So a crime would have to be committed, and then they could use the sex offender registry. What this in fact does is allow the police, they get a complaint and they can check the vehicle—the licence number, the make—and then determine if it is something they should be putting their resources into. So it's a tremendous advantage for the police in terms of being able to identify possible criminal activity before it happens.

There are a number of other initiatives, but what is very important is that we receive the cooperation of the Liberal senators and the independent senators in order to pass that bill through the Senate. And I hope we get the cooperation from the opposition parties.

[The Chair, Conservative, Garry Breitkreuz]

Thank you, Minister.

[Rick Norlock, Conservative, Northumberland—Quinte West, ON]

Yesterday, of course, you made the announcement—

[The Chair, Conservative, Garry Breitkreuz]

Briefly.

[Rick Norlock, Conservative, Northumberland—Quinte West, ON]

There was a story that Chief White told you about a person who had been 15 years in jail in the U.S, who came across. Of course, rumours get around. I wonder if you could straighten out the rumour and what the story really is.

[Vic Toews, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

Well, the problem was that when you brought back some of these international offenders, they basically.... The story related to me by the chief was essentially that an offender came to the border in shackles, in handcuffs, and the only question CBSA was allowed to ask him was, “Do you have any liquor you're bringing back?”

[Rick Norlock, Conservative, Northumberland—Quinte West, ON]

That's changed, I hope.

[Vic Toews, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

And now, with the international transfer of offenders and sex offender registers, we can determine exactly who that individual is.

[The Chair, Conservative, Garry Breitkreuz]

Ms. Mourani, please.

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

Thank you. Mr. Minister, I want to come back to the issue of prevention. Mr. Kirvan mentioned $64.7 million. When I talk with the people at the National Crime Prevention Centre, they say that right now, no organization in Quebec can apply for new funding in the area of prevention under the NCPC's programs, because there is no money. Despite the new budget that you have just come out with, there is no money, and we are told that it will stay that way until further notice.

I see that there is no budget increase and no money for prevention in Quebec right now. I want to clarify that is in Quebec. As we speak, no organization can apply for funding, even though the NCPC's Web site may say that applications can be made to such and such a program. That is misrepresentation, because there is no money. They are told not to apply for any more funding, that there is no money left. I want to know what the facts are, really.

[Vic Toews, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

Why don't you take it?

[Myles Kirvan]

Merci.

In the program this year, we will probably be spending in the order of approximately $30 million. There will still be some money left at that point in time, so I'd be pleased to look into an individual case for you, if there are cases there. I don't know—