Evidence of meeting #3 for Public Safety and National Security in the 40th Parliament, 3rd session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was million.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Vic Toews Conservative Provencher, MB
Well, there's the Alberta one where there was a manslaughter case. It went to trial three times, I believe. That's the most prominent one. Is that enough?
NDP
Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC
No, it's not enough. Could I ask your officials to give me a list, in your records, of every police officer who's been charged as a result of a death in custody?
Here's my last question. Your budget goes up by 43%, and capital construction has been pointed out. Prevention programming goes up by 0.5%. I heard some numbers from your official here, but I have right in front of me, on page 22-5, that it goes from $64.435 million to $64.77 million. That's 0.5%. I'm just wondering if you could let me know why the prevention allocation is only up 0.5% in a budget that's going up 8%.
Conservative
Vic Toews Conservative Provencher, MB
Well, in fact, you should have listened to the answer Mr. Kirvan gave. Your analysis is incorrect. You can either review the transcript or Mr. Kirvan can give you the facts again.
Conservative
Conservative
Shelly Glover Conservative Saint Boniface, MB
First and foremost, I want to thank all the witnesses for appearing here today.
Minister, I want to thank you, because I, as you know, am a police officer on a leave of absence. Our party is the only one that has elected police officers in it. So I take exception to some of the things said by our Liberal opposition member about all police officers disagreeing with this tough-on-crime plan that we have. I can thank you a thousand times, because police officers contact my office--and I'm sure they contact your office daily to thank you for putting forward measures that will in fact help better protect victims and hold accused accountable. I want to take a moment just to dispute that perception left by the member, which was inaccurate, inappropriate, and frankly unsubstantiated.
I would like to know about the wonderful statement you made this morning. I know there was an announcement, and I'm sure Canadians want to know more about it. Minister, would you please inform us about the announcement made this morning with regard to the transfer of international offenders?
Conservative
Vic Toews Conservative Provencher, MB
Thank you very much. I want to thank you, Ms. Glover, for the work you're doing. I know you have spent much of your career as a public servant, as a police officer, and now you're serving the public in this fashion.
Before I get on to your specific question, I'll say there is overwhelming support of our legislation by police officers. I never have a shortage of police officers and organizations from the police who want to participate in our announcements. Just yesterday--I'm not talking about the announcement we made today--on the sex offender registry, we had the chief of the Ottawa police, Chief White, participate with us in that. I've been contacted by other police associations who continually ask if they can participate in these announcements, because they support them. So I thank you for clarifying the record and giving me the opportunity to do that.
In respect of the International Transfer of Offenders Act, I think this is a very important act. Our government takes the view that when we are repatriating Canadian citizens who have been convicted of crimes abroad, the primary concern needs to be public safety. The goal is not simply to bring back individuals because they're Canadians. We want to see that Canadians on the street are safe and not at risk because these people have been brought back. The crimes run the gamut of criminal actions to very serious crimes.
Under the previous government, before we took over, these transfers were done routinely. The statistics show that almost 100% of them were simply brought back to Canada. Our record has been somewhat different. I haven't had the opportunity to deal with those issues yet, but I know that under Minister Van Loan's tenure, the return rate was about 27%, from January 2009 to September of 2009. He took very seriously the responsibility of bringing back these criminals.
We now want to ensure that the legal criteria that are set out in the act are in fact very clear and broad enough to address issues of public safety, so our act will ensure that the protection of society is the paramount consideration when assessing requests for the transfer of these international offenders. So we will add various criteria to the act, and we have put those criteria into the act. We're very pleased with some of these criteria. They will ensure that the individual being brought back doesn't endanger public safety, that the individual is not continuing to engage in criminal activities following their transfer, that this individual will not endanger the safety of any child--in the case of an offender who has been convicted of sexual offences against a child--and that the offender has been participating in rehabilitation and cooperating with law enforcement. We believe that's a very essential element. If an individual who has breached the laws of another country wants to come back to our country, then there has to be some indication that he or she is willing to work with law enforcement officials to repair the damage that he or she has done.
Conservative
Shelly Glover Conservative Saint Boniface, MB
That's fantastic news. Thank you, Minister.
Do you happen to have any indication as to how many people are seeking to leave Canada—to transfer out—and how many are looking to transfer in? Do you have any of those statistics available?
Conservative
Vic Toews Conservative Provencher, MB
Roughly speaking, I think two or three want to leave Canada and a few hundred want to come back. Wanting to leave a Canadian prison is not very popular, but wanting to leave other countries' prisons is certainly popular.
Conservative
Vic Toews Conservative Provencher, MB
I have some ideas about why it is. Maybe it's because our correctional officials do such a great job in terms of working with these offenders. But there are some other suggestions about the availability of parole. Many of these individuals are eligible for parole at one-sixth of their time, whereas in some of these foreign jurisdictions, the same easy access to parole is simply not there.
I don't want to take anything away from the fine work that the people in the public service do in correctional facilities, but I think there are broader legal issues that generate that interest.
Conservative
Shelly Glover Conservative Saint Boniface, MB
I'd like to give you an opportunity to correct the record as well on the gun registry. There have been some misconceptions by the opposition. I personally know of chiefs who are standing alongside this private member's bill to abolish the long-gun registry, and SWAT team experts who are standing alongside us. Thousands of police officers are standing alongside that private member's bill. I want to give you an opportunity to correct that, if you'd like to.
Conservative
Vic Toews Conservative Provencher, MB
In fact, you're correct. I meet officers very regularly who express their disapproval of the long-gun registry and commend our government for putting resources into front-line policing or rehabilitation programs that work. Some of those were mentioned by Mr. Kirvan.
Conservative
Liberal
Borys Wrzesnewskyj Liberal Etobicoke Centre, ON
Thank you, Chair.
We heard previously that there is a 43% increase in the capital expenditures in corrections. The commissioner has stated that there are major construction initiatives. Can you list what those initiatives are, Minister?
Conservative
Vic Toews Conservative Provencher, MB
Yes. The Correctional Service of Canada is facing serious challenges. There are aging facilities that need to be updated to meet health and safety standards. There is a more diverse, complex, and challenging offender population, specifically because of gang membership. There is a forecast increase in some of the offender population based on normal projections and the new legislation.
Liberal
Borys Wrzesnewskyj Liberal Etobicoke Centre, ON
So is this renovation, or will there be any new prisons built?
Conservative
Liberal
Borys Wrzesnewskyj Liberal Etobicoke Centre, ON
Thank you.
I'd like to go to the president of the Canada Border Services Agency. In the last ten years, Mr. Rigby, have there been any incidents of Canada Border Services agents dying in the line of duty?
Stephen Rigby President, Canada Border Services Agency
I am not aware that there have been, no.
Liberal
Borys Wrzesnewskyj Liberal Etobicoke Centre, ON
In the last ten years, how many incidents have there been in which Canada Border Services agents have faced real threats to their lives or serious physical threats?
President, Canada Border Services Agency
I would have to get back to you on that. I am not entirely sure that we capture those statistics accurately, but I'd be happy to look into it.
Liberal
Borys Wrzesnewskyj Liberal Etobicoke Centre, ON
Minister, earlier you talked, when you referred to past years when you sat on committee, about the gun registry and how aghast you were about costs spiralling out of control.
Your predecessor prioritized the introduction of hand guns, of revolvers, for all Canada Border Services agents. I understand there are about 5,000 agents who will carry hand guns. Initially, we were told it was going to cost about $180 million. Estimates now put it close to $1 billion. That is $200,000 per hand gun per Canada Border Services agent. Is that a good and effective—you said “effective”—use of money for Canada Border Services agents? That is $200,000 per agent with a gun.
Conservative
Vic Toews Conservative Provencher, MB
I'm not sure where you got your statistics; I'm not familiar with those statistics. But I can tell you that a firearm in the hands of a peace officer or a Canada Border Services agent is a much more effective tool than the long-gun registry. I think it is very important that, in this day and age of concerns about border operations, our border services need to be trained and equipped like other border services agents.
One of the most embarrassing situations I ever heard about was when an individual was coming up to the British Columbia border. Essentially, because the individual was armed, our border officers had to retreat and let the RCMP take over. I have nothing against the RCMP involving themselves in that fashion, but I believe that our officers have a right to be armed and properly trained to ensure the safety and security of Canadians. That armed presence acts as a deterrent.
