Public Safety Committee on March 18th, 2010

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

I am not interested in an individual case. I was told that there was no money for any new funding request anywhere in Quebec. I am not talking about an individual case. I want to know whether there is money or not. You say there is still a small budget, but I was told there was no money.

[Myles Kirvan]

Yes, there is money that is available there. I would be pleased to look into it to find out what the—

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

Very well, you need to tell people that.

[Myles Kirvan]

What they said and why is it like that? There is funding available.

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

Very well, thank you. It is important to clarify that.

I have another point, Mr. Minister. The issue of DNA is very important, as you mentioned. In April 2009, the committee met with two directors of large laboratories. As you know, there are three labs, the third being the RCMP's. We heard from Mr. Prime, from the Centre of Forensic Sciences, and Mr. Dufour, from the Laboratoire de sciences judiciaires et de médecine légale. These two labs do approximately 70% of the testing. Both directors told us, in April 2009, that not only was there no agreement with the government, but that they also had to do a huge amount of testing with very little money. Turnaround times could be as long as a year. Emergencies made up around 1% of their work.

I saw that the new budget includes $7 million. I want to know how much goes to Quebec, Ontario and the RCMP, and whether they are additional budgets or the regular budgets.

[Vic Toews, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

What I can tell you--and thank you for the question--is that the government, as I say, recognizes the importance of DNA analysis. In fact, strengthening the sex offender registry and the DNA data bank legislation is a recognition of the importance of this analysis. So we're continuing to examine ways to strengthen the DNA analysis system in Canada. Budget 2010 has allocated $14 million over two years to increase the ability to process DNA samples so that the results can be added to the DNA data bank.

To support this DNA casework analysis, the federal government continues its cost-share agreements with provinces, with territories. That began in 1999 to 2000--

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

Do they have an agreement, Mr. Minister?

[Vic Toews, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

And we are--

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

Is there a new agreement? When I spoke to them, there was no agreement with the government. I just want to know whether there is an agreement, yes or no, and what Quebec's and Ontario's shares are. I know that you are very dedicated, but I want to know.

[Vic Toews, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

Yes, Mr. Kirvan can give you those details.

[Myles Kirvan]

There are agreements in place until the end of this fiscal year.

Each year we have discussions among deputy ministers.

I co-chair a group of deputy ministers who are studying this issue. The group includes the Deputy Minister of Justice and a deputy minister from Alberta.

We are currently working on these agreements. Right now, our group is studying the specific issue of having in the budget...

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

You mentioned $14 million. How much is it for...

[The Chair, Conservative, Garry Breitkreuz]

We'll have to finish this later. You're over your time.

Mr. McColeman.

[Phil McColeman, Conservative, Brant, ON]

Thank you, Chair, and thank you, Minister, for coming today and taking your time here with us.

Just to clarify, I'm not a police officer. I was a contractor, but I did serve on my local police services board for a period of time and I want to comment on one thing you've said here today. Thank you actually for your views that there is a spot for police investigating police. It has been my experience that they have the expertise. As a person, a civilian, serving on a police services board and in certain situations, I don't know what we would have done without them and their expertise. So thank you for that.

My question relates to the recent announcement on the federal emergency response plan and the $100 million that's in the main estimates for the disaster financial assistance arrangements. While I'm sure Canadians are pleased with the initiative, I think some Canadians may have been surprised that something like this wasn't already in place. Is that the case? That's my first question.

The second question is what improvements were made?

[Vic Toews, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

All right, that is a good question, because it was the same question that the media asked after the announcement. What is the news here today?

Well, the announcement that we made was in response to the Auditor General's concern last November, when she indicated that in fact there was no clear document that brought together all of the federal agencies and departments to work in a coordinated fashion when we are confronted with an emergency. They not only have to coordinate with each other, but of course in many cases--for example, flooding along the Red River in Manitoba or the ice storm here in Ontario and Quebec, or forest fires in British Columbia and Alberta--the provinces are the key and primary jurisdiction. So not only do you have to coordinate the federal agencies with each other, but also you have to interface, then, with the provincial authorities.

So we thought the criticism or the concern of the Auditor General was well placed and we moved very quickly to put that plan together. In fact, we adopted this as a government, the federal emergency response plan, in December 2009, and that was announced yesterday.

I had the privilege to speak to a number of instructors at the emergency college who told me about how they coordinated activities. For example, if there was a hazardous waste spill in one part of Canada, you could essentially bring together responders from Montreal, Ottawa, Regina, Calgary, all working together not just as a team but indeed on the same body, in terms of cleaning up individuals who have been contaminated with hazardous waste and then bringing them right to hospital to make sure those individuals are properly cared for.

So the coordination and the work that has been done is an excellent example of the type of work that public servants are doing in the federal government by working together with provincial and municipal officials.

[Phil McColeman, Conservative, Brant, ON]

Just to expand on that, you have had complete cooperation from your provincial and territorial counterparts on putting this together. How much of a coordinated effort was that? Perhaps some of the individuals who are involved here, who are part of the team who did that.... How did that come about to be coordinated in such an efficient fashion?

[Vic Toews, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

If I can just mention, the plan itself was in existence prior to November 2009. It simply wasn't packaged and it wasn't clear in terms of one document.

I noted last year, for example, working together with the provincial government on the flooding in Manitoba along the Red River Valley, the work the provincial government did there was simply excellent. We then coordinated our resources with the provincial government. So the actual coordination and the plans were already taking place. But the Auditor General properly noted that more attention should have been paid to the details.

I am just wondering if someone else can continue.

[The Chair, Conservative, Garry Breitkreuz]

We maybe will have to finish that a little later. We are out of time.

I would like to thank you, Mr. Minister, for appearing before the committee. We don't have another five-minute round left. So thank you very much.

We will now move over to the Liberal Party. Who's going to go next? Mr. Oliphant.

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Garry Breitkreuz]

I won't start your time until everybody's ready.

Okay, go ahead, sir.

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

This will probably be addressed to the deputy minister.

Thank you all for being here.

The government is obviously very impressed with Mr. Justice Iacobucci, having appointed him to another role. Yet Mr. Justice Iacobucci had a report following up on Mr. Justice O'Connor's report that had a number of concerns and considerations around oversight.

I am wondering if, in this year's budget, your department is budgeting for improved oversight or even some existence of oversight, particularly of CBSA. I notice that there is some reference to other oversight areas, but there are over 20 recommendations looking at the over 20 agencies involved in the horrible circumstances that Mr. Almalki, Mr. El Maati, and Mr. Nureddin faced, and the lack of oversight. I am wondering whether you are now planning to pay the price of an oversight set of bodies or an integrated body.

[William Baker, Deputy Minister, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness]

Thank you.

As you observed, there are a number of oversight bodies already in place in the public safety portfolio, particularly those with respect to the activities of CSIS and the RCMP. There is money in the budget, of course, to put in place an expanded review and complaints function for the RCMP. The broader issue of an inter-agency review is still under active consideration.

I think one thing we have to take into consideration is the ultimate recommendation coming out of the Air India inquiry, which of course we haven't received yet but are expecting in the not too distant future, and that will inform us moving forward in that regard.

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

I have a question with respect to prisons. Maybe Mr. Head may be able to respond to this.

The previous minister indicated that one of the reasons they needed to shut down prison farms was to use the land for larger prisons. Yet the new minister said today there's no plan on capital expansion in prisons. Does that then mean the prison farms will be maintained and will be a valuable part? We were able to visit New Brunswick this year, and talked to many people around Westmorland, who said it was a very valuable function.

So if the land is not needed for capital expansion, will we have prison farms?

[Don Head, Commissioner, Correctional Service Canada]

The plans for closing the farms at minimum security institutions will continue. They will be closed by March 31, 2011, so there is no change in plans as they relate to the farms.

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

Unless there's an election.

A new government might have a different idea on the importance of connecting the land and prisoners, as many of your wardens indicated that they felt the rhythms of discipline and tying offenders to the land are actually part of the rehabilitative process. We can look forward to that day.

I have a question regarding crime prevention, following up on Ms. Mourani. There has been a history of underspending in crime prevention, which is fairly massive. As much as 20%, 30% or 40% of the annual budgets for crime prevention have not been spent in the past.

Is there a departmental plan to ensure that we actually do continue to try to prevent crime, as opposed to just wiping up after crime, which this government seems to want to do?