Evidence of meeting #56 for Public Safety and National Security in the 40th Parliament, 3rd session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was costs.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Bloc
Maria Mourani Bloc Ahuntsic, QC
What specific measures are to be found in this bill that lead you to believe it will cost this amount? What is it precisely?
Assistant Parliamentary Budget Officer, Expenditure and Revenue Analysis, Office of the Parliamentary Budget Officer, Library of Parliament
It is due to the higher number of incarcerated offenders in provincial jails. The flow is 10 times greater, excluding people on remand. It really is relative to the number of people. In general, the system will expand. That is why the impact on the provinces and territories will be comparable to that at the federal level.
Our analysis deals with the direction costs are going in. We did not assess a specific cost for the provinces. It is up to them...
Assistant Parliamentary Budget Officer, Expenditure and Revenue Analysis, Office of the Parliamentary Budget Officer, Library of Parliament
... to estimate their own costs. The provinces have access to their own highly detailed data. Our purpose is to indicate a direction because the member who asked us to produce this work wanted to know the national impact of these costs.
Bloc
Maria Mourani Bloc Ahuntsic, QC
Very well. Could you tell me about this new influx of people into provincial jails? We realize it is for sentences of 2 years less a day. Currently, there is a given flow of inmates in these jails. What impact will C-25 have on this flow of inmates? If I understand correctly, there will be new inmates?
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
Thank you, Madam Mourani. You're way over your time.
Could we have a very quick answer, please?
Parliamentary Budget Officer, Library of Parliament
Perhaps after the meeting, we can spend some time with you to explain to you exactly how we calculate the financial needs of various provinces and the impact of Bill C-25. That may be a better way to proceed.
Bloc
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
We do have the document right here, and it has already been circulated, I believe.
Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Page, your position as Parliamentary Budget Officer was a position created by the Conservative government under so-called accountability legislation. Is that correct?
NDP
Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC
Would it be fair to say that your mandate as originally or initially conceived by the government was to bring a transparency and accountability to the cost of governing?
Parliamentary Budget Officer, Library of Parliament
That's correct. Our mandate is legislated in the Parliament of Canada Act.
NDP
Parliamentary Budget Officer, Library of Parliament
The Parliament of Canada Act says the Parliamentary Budget Officer will provide independent analysis on economic trends, on the nation's finances, and on estimates, and will provide support for parliamentarians on costing.
NDP
Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC
Now, you've said, I think, some very profound words. You said that parliamentarians have not been provided with sufficient information to carry out their fiduciary duties, and that parliamentarians have not been given timely and adequate information before legislation becomes law.
Given the way this government has been handling the crime agenda, do you feel that you've been able to carry out your mandate as prescribed by law?
Parliamentary Budget Officer, Library of Parliament
Sir, we don't actually look at this on a partisan basis. We support all parliamentarians, so actually when we provide this analysis, we're providing it to all members of Parliament, all different parties. It's our analysis to everybody, Conservatives--
NDP
Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC
It's not a partisan question, Mr. Page.
Do you feel that you are able to carry out your mandate if the government's not giving you the cost assumptions and the methodology they're using in order to cost legislation and providing that information to parliamentarians?
Parliamentary Budget Officer, Library of Parliament
Sir, it makes it very difficult for us to support your work. I think it's your mandate that holds the government to account. We try to provide you financial information so you can do your job.
NDP
Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC
Are you able to give us comprehensive financial information on the government's crime agenda?