Public Safety Committee on June 21st, 2011

[Brent Rathgeber, Conservative, Edmonton—St. Albert, AB]

Just getting back to the selection criteria, you told me some of the...or you didn't tell me the individuals, and I'm not interested in specific names; I'm just curious with respect to the human resource professionals who were retained or employed with respect to the selection criteria.

Could you tell me a little bit about their backgrounds? Are they from inside the civil service? Did you hire from outside with respect to human resource professionals to help you develop the proposed selection criteria?

[Patricia Hassard]

In my office we have human resource professionals who are very familiar with the requirements in the federal public sector. That expertise was brought to bear in the development of the selection criteria.

I would add that we are engaging an executive search firm. That firm, of course, will have deep experience in selection processes for senior leadership positions.

[Brent Rathgeber, Conservative, Edmonton—St. Albert, AB]

Now, from your experience, can you help this committee with respect to what specific executive assets best enable an individual to lead such a complex organization, such a diverse organization, and such a decentralized organization as the Royal Canadian Mounted Police?

[Patricia Hassard]

Certainly. If you would turn to the proposed selection criteria, it probably would be easier if I referred to that.

What we are looking for is significant management experience at the senior executive level, although we have highlighted that this should be experience that would have been during a time of constraints on financial and human resources, where those were important factors. We are conscious of the fact that there are resource constraints for all of the federal public sector organizations.

We also want demonstrated experience in strategic management and organizational change in motivating employees to reach corporate objectives.

A new criteria that we have added this time is experience in developing and implementing a framework for talent management. As you're probably aware, most large organizations, such as the RCMP, are going through a bit of demographic change. There are concerns about members retiring and the retention of corporate knowledge, the development of new recruits, essentially succession planning. We are looking for someone who has a demonstrated capacity in that area.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you. We have to break there. We will go to the official opposition.

Mr. Sandhu.

[Jasbir Sandhu, NDP, Surrey North, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to the witnesses for coming here today.

Today we are studying the selection criteria for the next commissioner of the RCMP.

Mr. Chair, I am a little puzzled as to the selection criteria that we received last Wednesday. That was changed again this morning. We only received the new criteria about an hour ago.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

The ones you received this morning are not the new ones. We provided those as a courtesy to you. Those were the 2007 criteria for choosing a commissioner back then. What you received was the previous criteria so you could compare them with the new criteria that you were given last Wednesday.

[Jasbir Sandhu, NDP, Surrey North, BC]

That would be my first question. What was updated from 2007, and why?

[Patricia Hassard]

Overall I would say we have streamlined the selection criteria considerably. We have made them shorter and we've made them sharper and clearer, in my view. We have also added a number of new criteria to reflect the current operating environment for the RCMP.

As I was mentioning, the RCMP, just like other large organizations, is going through some demographic challenges. We are looking for a leader who has expertise in that area.

We did add three criteria in relation to demographics and talent management. One is experience in developing and implementing a framework for talent management that focuses on recruitment, succession planning, and knowledge transfer. You see that under “Experience”. We've added as a criteria the ability to develop and implement a corporate vision and provide the leadership and strategic direction required for the organization to fulfill its mandate and attain its objectives. We've also added the ability to focus the energies and talents of RCMP members and employees to motivate them to achieve corporate objectives.

Also, there are a number of additions in relation to the complex operating environment and the accountability regime the RCMP is subject to and the challenges of change that they're faced with. We are looking for someone with the ability to lead in a complex accountability environment, with experience in implementing modern corporate governance principles and best practices, and with the ability to anticipate emerging issues, manage risk, and lead organizational change in order to promote good governance and organizational performance.

You will see in the personal suitability characteristics that we are looking for a strategic and innovative leader and team builder who is motivated by challenge and change.

I believe, Mr. Chairman, those would be the major additions to the 2007 selection criteria.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you.

Mr. Sandhu.

[Jasbir Sandhu, NDP, Surrey North, BC]

My second question is on this selection committee that was set up. Just to be clear, there was no outside HR consultant or organizational consultant used for this.

[Patricia Hassard]

No, unless we're going to count the executive search firm that will be from the outside.

[Jasbir Sandhu, NDP, Surrey North, BC]

I mean, we aren't there yet for the selecting criteria.

[Patricia Hassard]

No.

[Jasbir Sandhu, NDP, Surrey North, BC]

Okay. We've all seen that there have been serious problems with the RCMP over the years. It has taken a beating in public accountability and transparency. There have been many, many cases over the years where the public has been very forthcoming with regard to whether they can trust some of the things going on in the RCMP.

Again, I don't see any selection criteria that demonstrates a new commissioner's commitment to improving community relations, and also public accountability in policing. Are there criteria in there that would use that?

[Patricia Hassard]

Specifically, Mr. Chairman, I would point to the second criterion under “Knowledge”, which says:

Understanding of Canada’s social and cultural fabric and a sensitivity to the issues relevant to the diversity of the Canadian population.

I would also point to the fifth bullet under “Experience”, which is:

Experience in building and maintaining productive and effective multipartite relationships with partner organizations and diverse stakeholders.

And to the member's accountability point, we have criterion under “Abilities”, which indicates we are looking for an “ability to lead in a complex accountability environment”.

[Jasbir Sandhu, NDP, Surrey North, BC]

I'll ask my question one more time. There is a difference between ability and demonstrated commitment. I don't see anything in the proposed selection criteria that the person we are choosing as our next commissioner would have demonstrated commitment to improving community relations and public accountability. That's not part of the criteria. Am I correct?

[Patricia Hassard]

I'm not sure I would interpret it that way, Mr. Chairman.

[Jasbir Sandhu, NDP, Surrey North, BC]

The government, back in February, pointed out that they would take an extensive consultative approach to this, but it doesn't appear to be that. I think this process is being rushed.

We were sent a draft list by Minister Toews--and I would like to thank him for doing this--but I would have liked to have known in more detail the criteria and how they were chosen.

My next question--

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Actually, you'll have to wait for the second round. Our time is up on that.

We'll now move to the second round and to the government.

Madam Hoeppner.

[Candice Bergen, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I want to begin by thanking the witnesses for being here. All of us really appreciate the opportunity to look at the criteria and to ask you questions and delve a little deeper into the criteria surrounding this important appointment.

Could both of you very briefly for the committee tell us your expertise? Tell us how many of these kinds of appointments and selection criteria models you have worked with and been a part of. Could you do that for us briefly?

[Patricia Hassard]

Thank you for the question.

I was trained as a lawyer, and I have been working in my current position as deputy secretary for senior personnel and public service renewal for four and a half years. I was here the last time the RCMP commissioner was selected and through many senior appointments over the years. I would say that I have fairly extensive experience in the selection of senior leaders.

[Candice Bergen, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Thank you.

Mr. Flack.

[Graham Flack, Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Public Safety]

Bill Baker is the individual from Public Safety who is on the committee. Bill is in Iqaluit right now with the other deputy ministers of public safety and justice. The federal-provincial meeting is on right now.

Bill has extensive experience as a senior public servant in hiring other senior public servants, including work with an external management board at the Canada Revenue Agency.

In terms of my background, I'm a lawyer as well. I have been involved in the national security and public safety area, and I have been involved in appointments at the senior level of the public service. But personally I haven't been involved in external appointments--appointments involving organizations at arm's length, like the RCMP.

[Candice Bergen, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Thank you very much.

I noticed several references in the criteria. “Demonstrated experience in strategic management and organizational change, and in motivating employees to reach corporate objectives” is one example. “Ability to develop and implement a corporate vision, and to provide the leadership and strategic direction required for the organization to fulfill its mandate and attain its objectives” is another. And I could go on. Several of the criteria talk about leading people and leading individuals and groups of people.

You talked about a “complex accountability environment”. I'm wondering, if you're looking at these criteria, what characteristics you would be looking at for an individual to be able to lead people. We all know if you're a good leader, it means people are following you. And they're not following you because they have to but because they believe in you, and they believe in what you're doing. How do you, then, take these criteria and translate them into actual characteristics?