Public Safety Committee on Nov. 7th, 2012

[Sharon McKeen]

The easy answer to the question is that air mode is deemed to be a higher risk than land and marine. With land, it's not feasible to get advance information. Most people jump in their car, they want to drive over to the States to go shopping, it might be last-minute. It's not the same type of presentation of information to gain access to another country. Also you have that one on one, you have the booths set up, so the dynamic is a little bit different.

With air mode, as of course we've all experienced in the past, there can be significant security issues to the Canadian public—

[Francis Scarpaleggia, Liberal, Lac-Saint-Louis, QC]

By sea, though, it's analogous to air travel, in a way. I mean, you're coming from overseas; generally you're not coming from the U.S., although you could be.

Is that a subsequent phase that you'll be looking at?

[Sharon McKeen]

Future consideration.

[Francis Scarpaleggia, Liberal, Lac-Saint-Louis, QC]

Future consideration. Okay.

At the moment is the way it works that as you get on the plane, it is at that point that your name enters the system, so that your identity is being checked while you are in transit?

When do they start checking, verifying, if you're a risky passenger at the moment? When is this done?

[Sharon McKeen]

It's done at the time of departure.

[Francis Scarpaleggia, Liberal, Lac-Saint-Louis, QC]

Meaning the time that you board the plane?

[Sharon McKeen]

You are on the plane. You are pretty well ready for take-off. The information is set. The information, if not set before the plane taxis off...as soon as the plane is up in the air, maybe 20 minutes later, we have the information.

[Francis Scarpaleggia, Liberal, Lac-Saint-Louis, QC]

Why do they wait that long? Why can't they do it at check-in or something?

[Sharon McKeen]

We don't have authorization to get the information any earlier than at time of departure. This is why we're seeking the amendment to section 107.1 to allow us to have the information in advance.

[Francis Scarpaleggia, Liberal, Lac-Saint-Louis, QC]

Oh, I see. Okay.

So the information you're getting is names, basically. Passport information, as Mr. Garrison said, is your name, your gender, all of that. And then this goes into a system. What does the system do? It cross-references to an RCMP database, a CSIS database? What really happens inside the computer, if you will?

[Sharon McKeen]

We receive the information. It's two packages of information. The API is your advance passenger information, page 2 of your passport: your name, your date of birth, and your particulars. The passenger name record is information about your travel. We take that information and we check against various Customs databases. We want to know if you have any wants or warrants. We want to know if there is an indication of criminality. We do vet the information. We do not have the ability to check every single passenger, so of course now that's when we come into scenarios and intel tips.

So there are various things that we do with the information from an enforcement and an intelligence point of view.

[Francis Scarpaleggia, Liberal, Lac-Saint-Louis, QC]

This seems all very straightforward, so I don't understand why.... You're not talking about dietary restrictions and you're not asking if the person has ever visited a psychologist, so where are the privacy concerns? And I'm asking so that I can understand. I'm not trying to suggest there aren't any. Where do the privacy concerns come in?

[Sharon McKeen]

Essentially the privacy concerns come in that you are receiving information for all passengers coming into Canada, so between 22 million and 25 million passengers per year, without provocation or impetus behind receiving that information.

So I haven't said “You are high risk, I need your information”: everyone starts out at the same level of risk. It's by evaluating that information that we identify if you fall into a category of high or low risk.

[Francis Scarpaleggia, Liberal, Lac-Saint-Louis, QC]

What suggestions has the Privacy Commissioner made? Again, it seems pretty straightforward: name, gender, whatever else, which is basic information. What are the Privacy Commissioner's concerns?

[Sharon McKeen]

The Privacy Commissioner's concerns are that we retain the information for a long period of time. We've evaluated that you've come in; why do we need the information for three and a half years? That's the current retention period for those packets of information.

[Francis Scarpaleggia, Liberal, Lac-Saint-Louis, QC]

Right: all kinds of things could be done with that information.

Now, is this information transmitted to the U.S. as well?

[Sharon McKeen]

The Americans have their own API/PNR program.

[Francis Scarpaleggia, Liberal, Lac-Saint-Louis, QC]

So if I board a plane for the U.S. from here, do I put in my information in advance at a computer screen? How does that work?

[Sharon McKeen]

It's the same way that the information is here....

I don't know if I should be commenting on the American system.

[Francis Scarpaleggia, Liberal, Lac-Saint-Louis, QC]

Well, it's important. We keep reading that this information, in a future iteration of this plan, at some point will be passed on to the United States—

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Very quickly, Mr. Scarpaleggia.

[Francis Scarpaleggia, Liberal, Lac-Saint-Louis, QC]

—and we don't know what the Americans are going to do with it. They could be checking it against all kinds of things.

I don't know; to me, this is the potential black hole. Anyway, we'll stop there.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you, Mr. Scarpaleggia.

We'll now go back to

Ms. Doré Lefebvre.

You have five minutes.

[Rosane Doré Lefebvre, NDP, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to thank you for the information about the amendments made to Bill C-45. I greatly appreciate it and I find it very interesting.

As my colleagues were asking questions, I kept taking notes. I am sorry, but I am going to try to sort all this out at the same time.

You talked about the fact that the information would be reviewed earlier. As you said, at the moment, that takes place when you are already on the plane. If I am not mistaken, with this amendment, you would get the information at the check-in. It is simply a matter of the processing procedure. Nothing changes in the way the information is gathered, but that gives you the power to do it 20 minutes earlier, for example, to make sure that people do not get on the plane if there is a serious problem.

[Sharon McKeen]

Yes. It's simply allowing us to obtain the information in advance to be able to evaluate the risk.