Public Safety Committee on Nov. 7th, 2012

[Rosane Doré Lefebvre, NDP, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Okay.

That would make it possible to gather information earlier and to extend the retention period. You will now be able to keep the information for three and a half years.

Are those the only changes under Bill C-45 that affect your agency?

[Sharon McKeen]

Bill C-45 does not bring about changes for the retention period. Bill C-45 is only asking for the information for those who are expected to be on board a commercial carrier destined for Canada.

[Rosane Doré Lefebvre, NDP, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Okay.

In other words, that only affects air transportation of people and goods. Is that correct?

[Sharon McKeen]

No. It's air mode for people only, all modes for goods.

[Rosane Doré Lefebvre, NDP, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

So, in the case of goods, all modes of transportation are affected. That is what I was confused about. I was wondering why marine cargo was not affected.

Has the Privacy Commissioner expressed any concerns other than the fact that you are going to retain the information for a longer period?

[Sharon McKeen]

The Office of the Privacy Commissioner speaks to privacy safeguards, access, collection, retention, so really the entire use and obtaining of the information. So from the Office of the Privacy Commissioner's point of view, they want to make sure that if things are changing in the future, they're not changing outside of the privacy safeguards they want to see in place, so we have to address every component.

[Rosane Doré Lefebvre, NDP, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Okay.

I would like to go back to the fact that, in the case of passenger transportation, only airlines are concerned. My colleague Mr. Scarpaleggia has briefly touched on this issue, and so did my colleague from Yukon. You said that air mode poses the highest risk. My colleague Mr. Rousseau just left, but I can tell you that, in his riding in particular, there are very serious problems with people crossing the border by car.

So I wonder why it does not cover all modes of transportation. Is it simply because air mode involves more risks or are there other reasons?

[Sharon McKeen]

We need to look at the feasibility of implementing in other modes. It's just not as feasible in the land mode. Everybody who is crossing the land border is expected to present themselves to a customs official, a border services officer. At that time the border services officer will evaluate the documentation of the individual seeking entry into Canada.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you.

We'll now move to Mr. Norlock, please.

[Rick Norlock, Conservative, Northumberland—Quinte West, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and let me through you thank the witnesses for appearing today.

I suspect very strongly that most of my questions are going to need to be answered by Ms. McKeen.

I'm sorry to keep on this, but there are a few questions I'd like answered.

First, can you explain and give us some examples of situations in which an officer would direct a transporter not to carry a traveller to Canada—in other words, the negative side of this?

[Sharon McKeen]

If the individual poses a serious and immediate threat to the Canadian public, they should be given the recommendation not to board the individual.

[Rick Norlock, Conservative, Northumberland—Quinte West, ON]

Let me interject quickly that I suspect very strongly that you would have in the system in your department some good examples of how this worked. Without giving names, times, and dates, give an example of what maybe you did involving a person, if you have it. If you don't, that's fine.

[Sharon McKeen]

Actually, I would probably prefer not to get into the details. However, an important aspect is that we need the legislative backing to be able to do that.

[Rick Norlock, Conservative, Northumberland—Quinte West, ON]

Okay.

Second, have the privacy implications of the advance passenger information or passenger name record program been assessed? I think you've gone through some of this, but if could you expand on it, by whom has it been assessed? Was it just the Privacy Commissioner, or are there other agencies or departments that you have contacted? Are there certain protocols that you follow to do this?

If you would, explain that to us—the privacy implications. Is there anyone other than the Privacy Commissioner?

[Sharon McKeen]

No.

[Rick Norlock, Conservative, Northumberland—Quinte West, ON]

Thank you.

When you're designing programs that collect personal information for use and retention or disclosure, what steps are taken to identify any possible risks posed to an individual's privacy rights? I think you mentioned a few, but could you go through the steps? In other words, the information goes in, people are identified—something is “flagged”, I guess is the common usage.

How do we make sure that any possible risks that are posed don't interfere with a person's privacy rights, yet you get to protect the people on the plane?

[Sharon McKeen]

I'm not really sure what your question is.

[Rick Norlock, Conservative, Northumberland—Quinte West, ON]

I'll repeat it: what steps do you take to identify any possible risks posed to an individual's privacy rights?

[Sharon McKeen]

We have very strict privacy requirements in CBSA. We follow those regardless of whether you pose a high risk or are deemed to be a lower-risk individual. This doesn't change just because we're requesting advance passenger information.

[Rick Norlock, Conservative, Northumberland—Quinte West, ON]

Thank you very much.

Let me go on to the other modes of transport. I think you answered accurately.

For many of these questions, we use the information we would hear when we deal with our own constituents as members of Parliament. I think my constituents would be rather upset, if they were going, let's say, to the U.S. to go to someone's funeral or if it were a medical emergency and they had to phone ahead and let the Canadian border services know that they were going across the border.

I want to thank you for bringing up the practicality of that. But since we're talking about other modes, I wonder whether your department has looked at.... We know that people travel by ship or by boat. What do you see as some of the impracticalities of obtaining that kind of information? They are somewhat contained, I suppose, if they're just going across the St. Lawrence or something like that, but I'm thinking more of cruise ships and that sort of thing. Do you gather any information from cruise lines, let's say coming from Europe or Asia, respecting passengers?

[Sharon McKeen]

Speaking from my perspective, we deal with the air mode only, so I don't have the type of information you're seeking on what we do with cruise ships.

If you would like further information, I can certainly gather it and provide it.

[Rick Norlock, Conservative, Northumberland—Quinte West, ON]

Would you send that to us, just as a matter of interest?

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you, Mr. Norlock. You had three seconds left.

We'll now move to Mr. Rafferty, please, for five minutes.

[John Rafferty, NDP, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

Thank you very much, Chair.

Ms. Stolarik, maybe you could answer this. Ms. McKeen said a few moments ago that the whole point of this amendment—the main one, not the cargo one, though I want to ask about that later, if I have the time—is that we're talking about reducing risk to the Canadian public. That's the main idea of this amendment, isn't it?

[Kristine Stolarik]

Yes, it is.