Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to both gentlemen for being here.
I want to go back to something you just said a few moments ago, Mr. Sapers, and go a little deeper into it, that individuals are on waiting lists to get into these programs, which later affect their applications for parole or other kinds of privileges then.
We've heard testimony about the fact there are programs with no measurement of whether they are successful in getting individuals off drugs and alcohol and no longer addicted.
In your experience, is there any kind of issue with inmates wanting to be part of these programs so they can check off these boxes and say they were part of a program, when there is really no way to measure, nor any accountability, as to whether they were truly successfully in completing these programs?