Evidence of meeting #73 for Public Safety and National Security in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was witnesses.
A video is available from Parliament.
10:40 a.m.
Conservative
Vic Toews Conservative Provencher, MB
Well, I can't say anything about that. I'll leave that with the Prime Minister.
10:40 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
Thank you very much, Minister.
And thank you, Mr. Rafferty.
I would just like to ask one quick question; I think I had permission from our parliamentary secretary on that.
I want to thank you first of all for moving with Bill C-51.
Mr. Norlock is getting ready to ask a question. Mr. Norlock is the only member on this committee who was on the committee in 2008 when the committee issued the report on the review of the witness protection program. So some of the changes that are happening in this bill are straight out of the good hard work of Mr. Norlock and the committee back then.
I would ask one question, and I thank you for clarifying on the street gangs. I think the word that was missing a bit was “youth”—youth street gangs. You clarified that. The definition of “person” that falls under this is “any person”. Anyone can fall into the witness protection plan.
One of the criteria in the witness protection program, when you consider whether they would be available, is the likelihood of the witnesses being able to adjust to the program, having regard to the witnesses' maturity. I don't know if the deputy commissioner would.... Is there difficulty for young people to prove the maturity they would need in such a program? That was one question.
I wonder if, Minister, you would have any examples as to a rate of recidivism? Are you aware of any recidivism of prior offenders who may be in the program?
These are two questions that came out of Mr. Norlock's committee report.
10:40 a.m.
Conservative
10:40 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
I mean a situation where they may have been offenders and they were also witnesses and they were brought into the program. Is there any awareness of recidivism later on?
10:40 a.m.
Conservative
Vic Toews Conservative Provencher, MB
Recidivism has the connotation—and I want to clear it up—that they have failed in being in the witness protection program. It is simply that the involvement of the witness protection program is no longer seen as necessary; then these individuals might be involved in another context or be perhaps threatened again by the same gang when they're back out into their normal life. Then they are brought back into the program. There is nothing that would prevent that type of—
10:40 a.m.
Conservative
Vic Toews Conservative Provencher, MB
—recidivism from happening. But the individual has to be appropriate for the program. If they can't offer any protection for the individual within the context of that program.... It doesn't really make any sense bringing them into the program if it jeopardizes others in the program, if it jeopardizes investigations, if it does everything. There are other ways the police can take steps to protect them.
10:45 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
Exactly. There is a responsibility on the witness, and that's the point. For the witness, if they are a juvenile or if they are a youth, there is a certain responsibility they have in this program.
10:45 a.m.
A/Commr Todd G. Shean
For everybody within the program there are definitive responsibilities that are laid out. I think one of the enhancements from the committees is the addition of the psychologist and the case management plan. The psychologists are there to work with the individuals and develop a case management plan to ensure the individuals entering the program will be successful within the program. That's one of the enhancements, and the plans are so comprehensive that it's very much advancing the program. I'd say we have one of the best in the world.
10:45 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
Thank you very much, Mr. Minister, for appearing here today.
We appreciate that we have one hour and our time is up. In fact, you stayed a minute or two longer.
Mr. Norlock, I apologize.
10:45 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
Thank you for your good work on the committee before and thank you again, Minister.
10:45 a.m.
Conservative
Vic Toews Conservative Provencher, MB
I want to thank all the committee members for moving this bill ahead as quickly as possible. I think we've been fulsome in our disclosures here. So I want to thank all the committee members, and I want to specifically thank Mr. Norlock for the work he did in developing this particular bill because of his prior studies.
Thank you.
