Evidence of meeting #88 for Public Safety and National Security in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was community.
A recording is available from Parliament.
NDP
The Vice-Chair NDP Randall Garrison
Good morning, everyone.
This is meeting number 88 of the Standing Committee on Public Safety and National Security, on Thursday, June 6. This morning we have with us Chief Doug Palson, from the First Nations Chiefs of Police Association. We normally open with a 10-minute statement and then we'll do rounds of questions.
Welcome and thanks for being here this morning, Chief Palson.
Chief Doug Palson Vice-President, First Nations Chiefs of Police Association
Thanks very much.
Good morning, Mr. Chairman and members of the committee. Thank you for your invitation to speak on behalf of the First Nations Chiefs of Police Association, which I'II refer to as the FNCPA. Chief John Syrette, president of the association, was unable to attend and asked me to appear in his place.
I am Chief Doug Palson, chief of the Dakota Ojibway Police Service, the headquarters being located in Portage la Prairie, Manitoba. I'm also the vice-president of the FNCPA. My work with first nation communities began with the RCMP in The Pas, Manitoba, in summer 1987. In 1988 I joined the Brandon Police Service and was appointed chief of the Dakota Ojibway Police Service in 2008. I am of Métis descent.
The First Nations Chiefs of Police Association was incorporated in 1992. It brought together the chiefs of police of self-administered policing agreements that resulted from the 1991 cabinet approval of the first nations policing policy. The FNCPA held its first annual meeting in 1996.
The FNCPA works to advance self-administered first nations police services within Canada. Our mandate is to serve first nations police services and first nation territories across Canada by facilitating the highest level of professionalism and accountability in their police services, and in a manner that reflects the unique cultures, constitutional status, social circumstances, traditions, and aspirations of first nations.
The FNCPA holds an ex officio voting position on the board of directors of the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police, and many of the first nations police executives are active members of the CACP committees. The FNCPA has been formally recognized by the Assembly of First Nations. Our total membership of 60 represents 38 stand-alone, self-administered first nations police services. We hold an annual conference where the business of the association is conducted and the membership is brought up to date on national, topical issues. One of these is the sustainability of first nations policing, which I'll address in more detail in a moment.
The work of the FNCPA covers eight areas of responsibility: effective policing on first nation territories; reflecting cultural, social, and constitutional diversity; accountability; training to meet the needs of first nations police services and communities; education of members and partners about the roles and functions of the first nations police services; provision of advice and expertise on issues of justice and public security to members, non-members, and governments; effective partnerships; and identifying and promoting best practices in first nations policing.
At our most recent annual conference held here in Ottawa two weeks ago, our members identified effective policing on first nation territories and partnerships as the two most pressing priorities.
Effective policing on first nation territories is a good lead-in to the current discussions on the economics of policing. We see a place for the first nations policing voice as part of these discussions because we have a keen understanding of the economics of first nations policing. In January of this year, in Ottawa, Public Safety Canada hosted the Summit on the Economics of Policing: Strengthening Canada's Policing Advantage. The Minister of Public Safety stated that the term “Economics of Policing” refers to “the evolution and sustainability of policing in a time of greater fiscal constraints and enhanced public expectations.”
The summit is described as one step in a long journey towards increasing efficiency and effectiveness of policing in Canada. Public Safety Canada has said that one planned outcome of the strategy, for ministers to consider, is to ensure that policing in Canada remains sustainable now and in the future. Although the FNCPA was not one of the associations that participated in the discussions that led to the summit, some individual first nations' chiefs of police did attend the event and we have been monitoring developments closely.
As an association, we are committed to efficient and effective policing that is sustainable now and into the future. We do not need to be convinced about the importance of the innovative approaches the Minister of Public Safety referred to when he called for “integrated efforts by multiple local agencies”. We do, however, recommend a reality check.
We have concerns about the availability and capacity of service agencies in the vulnerable and often remote communities served by first nations policing services. At a time when budgets for corrections are increasing, our communities find it more and more difficult to access federal crime prevention funding. We feel strongly that investing in prevention needs to be part of the discussion about the economics of policing. Front-end prevention is more cost-effective than corrective measures on the back end.
We also seek recognition of the constitutional relationship that sets out the responsibilities of both the federal and provincial governments toward first nations. The federal government has a fiduciary responsibility to be part of the solution to the economics of first nations policing.
Let me outline very briefly the history, context, and current situation of stand-alone, self-administered first nations police services that are funded under the first nations policing program. My intent is to convey the fundamental challenges that first nations police services face in providing a basic level of service. This is at a time when other police services are putting in place structural and administrative reforms and strategies to address cybercrime, national security, and terrorism threats, and in some cases deciding whether to purchase a helicopter.
The purpose of the first nations policing policy is to provide first nation and Inuit communities on reserve, crown land, or land set aside for their use, with access to police services that are professional, effective, culturally appropriate, and accountable to the communities they serve. The first nations policing program is intended to support the policy and to facilitate the transition to self-administered police services in communities that choose such a model. Successive evaluations and reviews, while pointing out challenges of uncertain and inadequate funding, the need for strengthening police governance, and other areas for improvement, have endorsed the principles of the first nations policing policy and confirmed the cost-effectiveness, clearance rates, and community satisfaction with the program.
As you are aware, Public Safety Canada administers the program, which has no statutory basis and is a discretionary federal transfer payment program. The cost of policing is shared by federal and provincial governments at 52% and 48% respectively.
Our association focuses on first nations policing through self-administered agreements that are part of the first nations policing program. Our association is unique in being able to speak on first nations' experiences with these agreements, which are intended to be negotiated among first nation or Inuit communities, provincial or territorial governments, and the federal government. The past 20 years of experience with self-administered agreements under the FNPP reveal the following issues that relate to the economics not only of policing but also of community safety, health, and well-being.
First of all, the lack of a legislative basis for first nations policing means that this innovative and proven policing model has a shaky existence and an uncertain future that is not good for first nation communities. First nations policing is seen by governments as an enhancement to the basic policing services provided by the province or territory, when in fact the self-administered police services are the de facto police service on the ground with enhancements coming from other policing services.
Funding levels are inadequate when compared with other policing services' budgets, particularly in light of the geographical and socio-economic conditions of many first nation communities. Standards for infrastructure, training, and general operations are imposed by governments, but there is often no funding for implementation and compliance. Comparisons of costs between first nations and other models must take into account the specific challenges of service delivery to first nation communities as well as community needs.
The limited funding within the program prevents communities that want a self-administered policing service from having one. Budgetary planning processes for first nations policing are not in accordance with the municipal, regional, provincial, or federal policing organizations. Civilian governance is required of first nations police services, but funding and educational resources have not been consistently provided by the federal government that set this condition.
Consultation among governments and first nation communities on levels of services required in the community does not take place in a meaningful way before policing agreements are signed, even though those agreements call for such consultation. Communities tend to be somewhat disenchanted with the process and feel that they are not respected.
Vice-President, First Nations Chiefs of Police Association
Yes.
In conclusion, the FNCPA sees a risk in the current national dialogue on the economics of policing led by federal-provincial-territorial governments. Our caution is that the long-standing and fundamental challenges of self-administered first nations policing may be overlooked. The needs of first nation communities are important and their voices deserve to be heard.
Like others who are discussing the sustainability of policing, the first nations police are committed to serving the communities. We are doing so in accordance with the principles and intent of the first nations policing policy. The current discussions provide an opportunity to renew and strengthen the federal government's commitment to first nations policing.
Mr. Chairman, the FNCPA has important input to add to these discussions, which is why we welcome the chance to appear before this committee. I'd be pleased to answer any questions.
NDP
The Vice-Chair NDP Randall Garrison
Thank you very much for your presentation.
We'll go into seven-minute rounds of questions, starting on the government side with Ms. Bergen.
Conservative
Candice Bergen Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Chief Palson, for being here. It's so nice to see somebody from home.
I want to begin by asking you if you could just describe for us the Dakota Ojibway Police Service in terms of how many communities you are serving. Could you tell us the population, the total number of people you serve, and then what your total operating budget is?
The reason I'm asking that is just to compare it with other police services. For example, the City of Portage la Prairie has RCMP policing services that police the city as well as the municipality. Depending on their population, probably anywhere from 10% to 20% of their budget is provided by help from the federal government, whereas in first nations policing the federal government provides about 52%. I think you mentioned 52%, while 48% was from the province.
If you could just describe for us the population that you're policing in terms of numbers, I'll follow up.
Vice-President, First Nations Chiefs of Police Association
Right now, we're the only self-administered first nations policing service in Manitoba. We have a sworn complement of 30 or 31 officers. With civilian staff, we have a total of approximately 42 staff. We're presently serving five first nation communities throughout southern Manitoba. The approximate total population for the five communities is 8,000 people.
Among the challenges we have are the distances. In comparing small municipal services, whether it be an independent municipal service or a contract with the RCMP, we have detachments that are probably almost 200 miles apart, with the Roseau River south of Winnipeg, and the Birdtail Sioux almost at the Saskatchewan border. Those distances are huge for us.
Also, to make another comparison, the type of service delivery we provide to the community is sometimes difficult. In making comparisons, you have to ensure that you're comparing the same levels of service.
Our annual operating budget is about $5,200,000. It's in that range.
Conservative
Candice Bergen Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB
That's to police about 8,000 people. I know the distances. I live there—
Conservative
Candice Bergen Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB
—so I know. That's just so I'm clear on the numbers.
Can you talk a little bit, then, about how you are able to collaborate with other police services to provide policing? The area you're describing is not like a northern remote community. For example, Grand Rapids, let's say, is much more sparsely populated.
In the area you're discussing, there are a lot of other areas around Roseau River. Altona is fairly close, and in some of the other first nations that you're policing, there are other police services that are close by. Are you collaborating with them? Do they work together with you to help? Can you provide assistance to them as well?
Vice-President, First Nations Chiefs of Police Association
Yes, we have a good working relationship, essentially with the RCMP, but also with the Brandon Police Service and the Winnipeg Police Service. With Brandon and Winnipeg, it's more for training. A lot of our recruit-level training happens through the Brandon Police Service program. It has in the last few years. Where the boots hit the ground, the rubber hits the ground, at detachment levels, our relationship is more with the local RCMP. For the most part it's a pretty good working relationship, although on the communities we are the police service of jurisdiction. If we require their assistance, we will request it. They are the provincial police, and they're mandated to do that regardless.
A good example would be a homicide. In the past we have managed some of those investigations on our own. In this day and age that's not for an agency of our size, regardless of whether it's us or whether it's a smaller community agency. To manage homicide investigations, you need to have the proper resources. We'll ask the RCMP, their special investigation unit, to come in and assist in those areas: tactical response, identification services, that sort of thing. We have a good relationship with the RCMP, i.e., the provincial police, to provide those services for us.
Conservative
Candice Bergen Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB
Do any of the first nations that you police provide any funding at all to you directly? Are they hiring you or is all of the funding provided by federal and provincial governments?
Vice-President, First Nations Chiefs of Police Association
It's essentially all provided through the FNPP and by the federal and provincial funding. There is a little bit of funding that comes in through our crime prevention, and it's a very little bit. Through some grant funding for some youth programs, we initiate Lighthouses funding and things like that. In our policing agreements, the community or the band supplies the infrastructure, like the building, for the detachment, and then we rent it from them. That's their call.
Conservative
Conservative
Vice-President, First Nations Chiefs of Police Association
No, not really.
Conservative
Candice Bergen Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB
Each one of these first nation communities is not, out of their own band resources or first nation resources, providing anything. In fact you're paying them.
Vice-President, First Nations Chiefs of Police Association
Yes, that's how the funding is structured, both federally and provincially, for the policing services for those communities.
Conservative
Candice Bergen Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB
I've lived on a first nation community up in Grand Rapids. I'm also very familiar with that area. Do you think that there would be some value in, in some way, these first nations making some contribution, whether it's financially, whether it's in terms of infrastructure, or even—and you haven't commented on this—volunteers, that buy-in, literal buy-in from the community? I think it's so helpful for any community when the community takes ownership as opposed to everybody else taking care of them.
Vice-President, First Nations Chiefs of Police Association
Yes. There is movement towards that, but it's a slow process. As you're likely aware, there are a lot of challenges these first nation communities face, the socio-economic side of it. As a service, we've initiated a couple of programs to help. A good example is that a couple of the communities' leadership came to me and asked if we could help them raise the bar, for lack of a better term, of their security services.
Most communities have some version of community security, mostly just to monitor the buildings and things like that. Some of those services are struggling. So we embraced that and we developed what we referred to as a community safety officer program. What we did was facilitate the training. We brought in some trainers we knew for that and developed a three-week course for them. They're just finishing that up next week. This is just in its infancy, and that's an example. We're hoping that it will evolve into something greater, where we will have a closer partnership with some of the local security people in the community, and develop a working relationship and trust to the point that maybe we could utilize them for certain situations that free up some of our—
Conservative